Putting America First

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
BetteTheRed said:
To me, it's absolutely clear that Trump won. It's also absolutely clear that white christians put him there. If you don't like it, either suck it up, or stop being a white Christian.
Click to expand...
Hello Bette the Red, Your statement is horribly over-simplified and terribly unfair. First, 16% of white evangelical Christians voted for Hilary Clinton. So in a single sentence, you have dumped millions of thoughtful, intelligent, Caucasian evangelical Christians into the same pot as those who voted for Donald Trump. That is simply unfair. Second, exit polls show 51% of the evangelical white Christian voters indicated they were voting against Hilary Clinton, not for Donald Trump. So there was a huge protest vote element within that demographic group. From what I have read, many in white evangelical Christians declared they were horribly conflicted, but held their noses and voted for Trump as a protest against the democratic candidate. Why did this demographic vote against Hilary Clinton? I don't know. It may have had something to do with the Democratic National Committee jigging the primary campaign in favour of their chosen candidate, rather than let two strong candidates fight it out on a level playing field. For a whole lot of Americans that just stunk. But I'm getting off topic. Third, the influence of white Evangelical Christian voters in crucial swing states is greatly exaggerated. In Florida, only 24.6% of the population is made up of white evangelical Christians. In Wisconsin, the number is 22.5%. In Massachusetts only 10.6%. Fourth: Candidate Clinton's supporters didn't show up the way candidate Trump's did. Votes for Hilary Clinton went down among both Hispanics and African Americans. Surprisingly, 29% of Hispanic Americans voted for Trump, an increase of 2% over Mitt Romney four years ago. Of course all this is terribly nuanced. I should be just wringing my hands and "sucking it up" because someone made a blanket statement that smeared millions of people who are innocent of the slur.
 
Bette is absolutely correct. White Christians put Trump in the White House. That some didn't vote for Trump does not change that fact.
 
Dave Henderson said:
Hello Bette the Red, Your statement is horribly over-simplified and terribly unfair. First, 16% of white evangelical Christians voted for Hilary Clinton. So in a single sentence, you have dumped millions of thoughtful, intelligent, Caucasian evangelical Christians into the same pot as those who voted for Donald Trump. That is simply unfair. Second, exit polls show 51% of the evangelical white Christian voters indicated they were voting against Hilary Clinton, not for Donald Trump. So there was a huge protest vote element within that demographic group. From what I have read, many in white evangelical Christians declared they were horribly conflicted, but held their noses and voted for Trump as a protest against the democratic candidate. Why did this demographic vote against Hilary Clinton? I don't know. It may have had something to do with the Democratic National Committee jigging the primary campaign in favour of their chosen candidate, rather than let two strong candidates fight it out on a level playing field. For a whole lot of Americans that just stunk. But I'm getting off topic. Third, the influence of white Evangelical Christian voters in crucial swing states is greatly exaggerated. In Florida, only 24.6% of the population is made up of white evangelical Christians. In Wisconsin, the number is 22.5%. In Massachusetts only 10.6%. Fourth: Candidate Clinton's supporters didn't show up the way candidate Trump's did. Votes for Hilary Clinton went down among both Hispanics and African Americans. Surprisingly, 29% of Hispanic Americans voted for Trump, an increase of 2% over Mitt Romney four years ago. Of course all this is terribly nuanced. I should be just wringing my hands and "sucking it up" because someone made a blanket statement that smeared millions of people who are innocent of the slur.
Click to expand...

And you've slurred millions by suggesting that white evangelicals who voted for Trump weren't intelligent and thoughtful.

I feel that many who voted for Trump did so largely because they thought that they couldn't in good conscience vote for Clinton.
 
Jae said:
I feel that many who voted for Trump did so largely because they thought that they couldn't in good conscience vote for Clinton.
Click to expand...

I think that is one part of it but not the whole, I think yes the DNC made a big mistake in Picking Clinton especially after her husbands impeachment , like what were they thinking ??????????????

I also believe Americans were tired of the same ol politics the DNC put forth the last 20 yrs and wanted a change , Trump had alot to say for the working class, the forgotten states and Hillary had nothing but same ol stuff

The DNC only have themselves to blame for being decimated as a party, but there attacks on Trump now is not democratic at all and there causing even more damage to there party by doing so
 
blackbelt1961 said:
I think that is one part of it but not the whole, I think yes the DNC made a big mistake in Picking Clinton especially after her husbands impeachment , like what were they thinking ??????????????

I also believe Americans were tired of the same ol politics the DNC put forth the last 20 yrs and wanted a change , Trump had alot to say for the working class, the forgotten states and Hillary had nothing but same ol stuff
Click to expand...

Oh, I agree blackbelt. I was speaking specifically of the white evangelicals. I feel that when they considered things like Clinton's pro-choice stance, the kind of persons she'd likely want to be SCOTUS judges, and the Clinton Foundation being corrupt, they plugged their noses and voted Trump.
 
Jae said:
Oh, I agree blackbelt. I was speaking specifically of the white evangelicals. I feel that when they considered things like Clinton's pro-choice stance, the kind of persons she'd likely want to be SCOTUS judges, and the Clinton Foundation being corrupt, they plugged their noses and voted Trump.
Click to expand...

for sure, Im all for giving Trump a chance, I agree that he is rough, hes not like the politically correct intellectually dishonest politicians and that's what the voters like about him but he does have his party behind him and I think hes going to do good for the country
 
Jae said:
And you've slurred millions by suggesting that white evangelicals who voted for Trump weren't intelligent and thoughtful.

I feel that many who voted for Trump did so largely because they thought that they couldn't in good conscience vote for Clinton.
Click to expand...
Hi Jae, Regarding your first point, I didn't say that millions of white Christian evangelicals who voted for Trump weren't intelligent and thoughtful. If the way I made my statement inferred that, it was by accident. In fact what I'm trying to do is move away from broad statements that paint millions with the same brush. Regarding your second point, I made that point in my post. From my original post: "Second, exit polls show 51% of the evangelical white Christian voters indicated they were voting against Hilary Clinton, not for Donald Trump. So there was a huge protest vote element within that demographic group. From what I have read, many in white evangelical Christians declared they were horribly conflicted, but held their noses and voted for Trump as a protest against the democratic candidate."
 
Dave Henderson said:
Hi Jae, Regarding your first point, I didn't say that millions of white Christian evangelicals who voted for Trump weren't intelligent and thoughtful. If the way I made my statement inferred that, it was by accident.
Click to expand...

Where I took that from Dave was your statement, "First, 16% of white evangelical Christians voted for Hilary Clinton. So in a single sentence, you have dumped millions of thoughtful, intelligent, Caucasian evangelical Christians into the same pot as those who voted for Donald Trump."

Dave said:
In fact what I'm trying to do is move away from broad statements that paint millions with the same brush. Regarding your second point, I made that point in my post. From my original post: "Second, exit polls show 51% of the evangelical white Christian voters indicated they were voting against Hilary Clinton, not for Donald Trump. So there was a huge protest vote element within that demographic group. From what I have read, many in white evangelical Christians declared they were horribly conflicted, but held their noses and voted for Trump as a protest against the democratic candidate."
Click to expand...

Okay.
 
Jae said:
Oh, I agree blackbelt. I was speaking specifically of the white evangelicals. I feel that when they considered things like Clinton's pro-choice stance, the kind of persons she'd likely want to be SCOTUS judges, and the Clinton Foundation being corrupt, they plugged their noses and voted Trump.
Click to expand...
chansen said:
Bette is absolutely correct. White Christians put Trump in the White House. That some didn't vote for Trump does not change that fact.
Click to expand...
Hi Chansen, You may be right on the face of it, but as I said in my original post, it is far more nuanced. It also came down to who didn't vote for Hilary Clinton. 33% of Bernie Sanders voters declared they would not vote for Hilary Clinton. That is a huge constituency. The general consensus from the analysis I have read (I can dig up some attribution if you wish) is that a key factor in the US election is that a lot of Donald Trump's supporters got out and a lot of Hilary Clinton's supporters stayed home. Perhaps millions of evangelical white Christians were a key in electing Donald Trump. But while they are lesser in number, it's also true that millions of evangelical white Christians supported Hilary Clinton.
 
Jae said:
Where I took that from Dave was your statement, "First, 16% of white evangelical Christians voted for Hilary Clinton. So in a single sentence, you have dumped millions of thoughtful, intelligent, Caucasian evangelical Christians into the same pot as those who voted for Donald Trump."



Okay.
Click to expand...
Agreed Jae...and it does look like my brush was too broad in the first statement (re: the same pot).
 
If only the religiously isolated as well as their opponents realised we are in the same pot and what we do as individuals affect the integral ... to the point of destroying the surroundings (environmental metaphor)!

Ever visit a battlefield right after the onset ... nothing much to look upon as beauty!
 
Ad din dumb ... addendum?

Do real powers appreciate metaphorical figures as forms? Ire Nous ... Irenious, or Uranus for variety ...

Don't you have a love of variants? They come in parse ... Cad use, or Caducei?
 
"Christianity in its true sense puts an end to the state. It was so understood from its very beginning, and for that Christ was crucified." – Leo Tolstoy
 
With out de light we are in a Deus of a state ... and the lights go out in GEO Gaia ...

As I've mentioned before I've been told not to think and some staid religious folk call be stubborn? When I ask: "what do they know about eternal things and non-things?" Tis a dark and abstract etude ...

Do we eventually come out the other side ...?
 
Thank you Blackbelt for reminding us once again of how Trump supporters hear the news. It is so heartening to heaar that Trump's forces are only deporting hardened criminals who have been tried and convicted of serious crimes and not the farm worker who has been picking tomatoes on the same farm for fifteen years, or the college graduate who was brought into the country as a baby and didn't even know that she wasn't a citizen. I guess those types of reports I've been hearing are those terrible left-wing liars. :(
 
Emotions (fear, rages, etc.) separate the decent senses ... thus it back fires ... Trump seems to get off on terrorism ... I believe he probably scares himself ...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top