TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

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"Even the devil can quote scripture." They can probably quote it better than me. But they seem to gravitate to the nasty parts that Jesus, in how he lived, was showing people a different way. Maybe they'd be better named Leviticans. Not Christians. Jesus said love your neighbour, put down your swords, share, heal, include "outsiders" and care for them, don't be attached to monetary wealth. He said "the peacemakers shall be called the children of God." When he was being nailed to the cross, the angry rebels called for Jesus Barrabas, a rebel leader to be released. They revelled in Jesus of Nazareth's crucifixion. The man who went around trying to heal and spread unity and challenge an institution corrupted by wealth and greed. Whether the two Jesus' is literal or a literary tool to illustrate a moral truth is beside the point. Some "Christians" behave more like those who had that Jesus killed. They're more like followers of Barrabas.

Nowhere does it say that the fruits of the Holy Spirit are rabid hatred, racism, guns, and wars.

It's a feeling in my gut that they are not preaching "Good News". I don't hate them but they worry me - they have a lot of influence in the U.S. - I'd like to see them 'repent' - turn it around, and become "born again"- again. ;) They will have less influence if the GOP falls apart because that's where their political loyalty seems to be.
 
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I'm quite prepared to say that I hate them. They are the people that have advocated for the stupid wars of the past 15 years. They are the people who would make sure gay kids have no support, no hope, and no chance at happiness. They want government to sponsor their religion at the expense of all others. They want kids to be ignorant. I hate them, and I will insult them and mock them and argue against them.

In the process, I'm often arguing against Christianity and Christian beliefs. Online, it's atheists against these Christians, because "mainline" Christians are reluctant to say anything. The UCCan is especially worried about offending other denominations. Every time there is an opening to do something positive in the news, I bring it up, and then watch the opportunity pass by. And people wonder why kids are becoming atheists. They are too stupid to realize that more often than not, it's atheists who have their kids' backs, or their friends' backs. Christianity is either stupid and ignorant, or uninterested and complacent.

But hey, you'll argue against atheism. You'll argue against the people who are taking on the evangelical Christians. And imagine how that's gonna backfire with your own kids when it's the atheists taking on the evangelicals.

You can make yourself feel better by insisting I don't know what I'm talking about.
 
And if Trump doesn't get elected - maybe things can move in a better direction. These right wing "Christian" Trump supporters are all of a sudden enthralled with a self-absorbed, hedonistic heathen who doesn't even try to pretend he isn't. It's counter-intuitive to Christianity.
 
Kimmio said:
And if Trump doesn't get elected - maybe things can move in a better direction. These right wing "Christian" Trump supporters are all of a sudden enthralled with a self-absorbed, hedonistic heathen who doesn't even try to pretend he isn't. It's counter-intuitive to Christianity.
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It's not. It falls right within a large part of Christianity. It's just not your Christianity, but it's still Christianity. Christians have a problem, and your insistence that Christianity isn't to blame is not your call to make. Welcome to what Christianity can do.
 
I think it's more practical to encourage a softer side - more socially just, peaceful and cooperative side, of Christianity - than to fight hate with hate. Feel free to mock away - but no matter what the inspiration is - social justice, peace, and cooperation efforts don't deserve to be mocked.
 
chansen said:
It's not. It falls right within a large part of Christianity. It's just not your Christianity, but it's still Christianity. Christians have a problem, and your insistence that Christianity isn't to blame is not your call to make. Welcome to what Christianity can do.
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It is counterintuitive to Christianity. Sorry. It's counterintuitive to what the "fruits of the Holy Spirit" which Jesus exemplified, actually are. There's a purpose to Christianity beyond just calling yourself something.
 
Kimmio said:
I think it's more practical to encourage a softer side - more socially just, peaceful and cooperative side, of Christianity - than to fight hate with hate. Feel free to mock away - but no matter what the inspiration is - social justice, peace, and cooperation efforts don't deserve to be mocked.
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But you'll call Trump a "heathen". You're more than willing to attack his not-so-religious side. That's fair game. But it's not atheist groups pushing him to go against gays - it's Christian groups who have pressured him to do that. You again show how you'll fight against atheists, but you won't actually go after the problem, because you won't attack a fellow Christian like you will an atheist.
 
Kimmio said:
It is counterintuitive to Christianity. Sorry. It's counterintuitive to what the "fruits of the Holy Spirit" which Jesus exemplified, actually are. There's a purpose to Christianity beyond just calling yourself something.
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It's not counter-intuitive to other Christians. You won't admit that because you don't want to deal with it.
 
chansen said:
But you'll call Trump a "heathen". You're more than willing to attack his not-so-religious side. That's fair game. But it's not atheist groups pushing him to go against gays - it's Christian groups who have pressured him to do that. You again show how you'll fight against atheists, but you won't actually go after the problem, because you won't attack a fellow Christian like you will an atheist.
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Sorry - I have always used the word, and rarely do, to mean "uncivilized" person, than to mean non-religious. It is one appropriate use of the word.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heathen
 
Kimmio said:
Sorry - I have always used the word, and rarely do, to mean "uncivilized" person, than to mean non-religious. It is one appropriate use of the word.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heathen
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Actually, heathen does not mean "non-religious" (see your own definition). It was generally a derogatory term for non-European non-Christians dating to the time when Christianity was assumed to be a sign of civilization. So you had Christians calling the Chinese "heathens" in spite of the fact that the Chinese were arguably as civilized, if not more so, than those Christians.
 
It was originally, Mendalla - but I grew up in a non-religious, albeit "culturally Christian" upbringing - for the most part - and we used it once in awhile to describe uncivilized behaviour - pretty well synonymous with cretin. I could've stuck with self-absorbed hedonist for Trump - heathen is superlative. But I suppose my point is that the so called Christian followers that adore him don't care about his self indulgence, his hateful, racist, sexist, comments. And that is counter-intuitive to what Jesus was about.
 
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Kimmio said:
yup. Seriously. We even referred to ourselves as heathens occasionally, jokingly or flippantly, if behaving badly. Like overindulging, over-shopping, and drinking too much at Christmas - knowing that isn't what it's supposed to be about.
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Different context. You called Trump a "self-absorbed, hedonistic heathen." Would you also say that "self-absorbed" and "hedonistic" were flippant jokes? Everybody knows why you wrote what you wrote. And it's not like most of us would even disagree in general. I'll even agree that he's probably an atheist, and that's not in my best interests, but it is honest. But what you have to admit, is that it's the Christians leading him to and applauding his most hateful statements.

But you won't do that.
 
chansen said:
Different context. You called Trump a "self-absorbed, hedonistic heathen." Would you also say that "self-absorbed" and "hedonistic" were flippant jokes? Everybody knows why you wrote what you wrote. And it's not like most of us would even disagree in general. I'll even agree that he's probably an atheist, and that's not in my best interests, but it is honest. But what you have to admit, is that it's the Christians leading him to and applauding his most hateful statements.

But you won't do that.
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No. I won't. He demonstrates something other than what Jesus represents. If so called Christians are fooled by that and adore such a leader, I don't think they're being Christian in principle, at heart, only by name. It's one thing to believe in doing the right thing and not being exemplary at following it through but - forgiving and seeking forgiveness - recognizing errors, getting back up when one screws up and trying to do better. It's another thing to be totally committed to hateful, greedy, principles. That's not Christianity!

Self absorbed and hedonistic were serious observations. Heathen was more pejorative and I could've left it off - but I was pointing out how I'm used to the use of the word, even my own family amongst ourselves.
 
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