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Snake oil salesmen have been preying upon people looking for a cure forever.

Something that is diluted to the level of no actual medication cannot possibly work. It is logic.

On the other hand, is it possible to heal yourself through will of mind? Possibly

The danger is when people drop conventional scientific medications for these "snake oil" remedies. Money and health is at risk
 
Lastpointe said:
Snake oil salesmen have been preying upon people looking for a cure forever.

Something that is diluted to the level of no actual medication cannot possibly work. It is logic.

On the other hand, is it possible to heal yourself through will of mind? Possibly

The danger is when people drop conventional scientific medications for these "snake oil" remedies. Money and health is at risk
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I wouldn't drop it all together...especially diagnosis. If I am feeling sick, I am going to see a doctor first. I think that alternative and conventional therapies should compliment one another...and it's not all snake oil. And I live in BC...that approach seems to be better accepted out here. It's a health and fitness and natural "foodie" province. BC has the highest life expectancy in Canada... Maybe there's something to the acceptance of natural treatments, and wholistic/ spiritual approaches in the public consciousness (not absent of conventional medicine altogether)?
 
There is lots to be commended about a healthy life style, being fit, getting out into nature, eating good fresh food.....

What is not worth considering is taking water that has a "memory" of medicine and will cure you

That is what they are selling.

If you buy it you are wasting your money. If you use it and nothing else you will not get better.


I expect someday one of these snake oil selling companies, which, don't kid yourself are big business and in it for the money, will be used for suggesting that water will cure the disease.
 
It's a cultural thing...it is not at all abnormal to find intelligent people using alternative medicine out here. You should see Whole Foods. It's packed with hippy/ yuppies. ;)
 
I would not rely on it solely. But i do think placebos and anything that helps aid recovery because you feel better- helps. Even environment. Hospitals and clinics are generally ugly and generic and sterile are unpleasant to visit and dampen my mood. That doesn't help.
 
Kimmio said:
I wouldn't drop it all together...especially diagnosis. I think that alternative and conventional therapies should compliment one another...and it's not all snake oil.
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You're right, snake oil contains something.

I think the medical field could do a better job of promoting a healthy lifestyle. Science does cover that, the system doesn't always do a great job of it. It comes down to patients though too, doctors will often be willing to refer someone to a dietician and other professionals. I know people who did that and stopped though, they got frustrated as most of their patients weren't going to them because they wanted to and weren't willing to work with them. Other times the people who want it are already trying but without the guidance, so they slip through the cracks on getting those referrals.
When you go to a ND, they often have more time. They care more about the holistic side of things. I think many doctors do care about that side, but they are often too busy dealing with the more important matters first. When my throat is swelling and I need to learn about IVs, the priority isn't into getting me into a safe exercise program.
 
I agree it's a business and one should keep that in mind. But so is pharmaceuticals. I took a drug that had a lawsuit because of delayed findings risk of developing diabetes. I took it for about 6 months and I didn't find out about the legal action until after. I know I gained rapid weight on it that became harder to lose after.
 
Kimmio said:
It's a cultural thing...it is not at all abnormal to find intelligent people using alternative medicine out here. You should see Whole Foods. It's packed with hippy/ yuppies. ;)
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It doesn't mean they aren't wasting their money.

I'd like to know what you think about the link I shared about the asthma study.
 
Well, I think they used placebos like 'sham' accupuncture (as opposed to real acculuncture). It didn't give any other details about what ingredients were or were not in the placebos, and they didn't compare with real alternative treatments. And I think if I had asthma, because I have a great uncle who died from it (he forgot his inhaler...was alone driving. Awful.) - I'd carry an inhaler unless and until a natural treatment was proven, with evidence that I trusted, because that is a life threatening condition with 'accute' emergency manifestation.
 
So when it's something serious, homeopathy shouldn't be used, but if it's no biggie, it's ok, because well, it's no biggie?
 
Homeopathic remedies are a scam. You'd be better off convincing yourself you have a magic pill in your hand, and eating a Tic Tac. By the time they are finished their dilutions, there is no active ingredient left. The concept of water having a memory is long debunked. If you buy a homeopathic remedy, you are literally buying nothing. It is the religion of the medicine world, in that it pretends to have answers, but contains nothing of substance.

If you are healed after taking a homeopathic remedy, thank your body for healing. It would have done it on it's own. If the placebo effect is what you needed, then again, pretend any mint is a pill.

To argue otherwise, is to say that no homeopathic company or group wants to make money. Any of them could apply for FDA approval for any of their remedies. They do not. Think of the money they could make if they could prove homeopathy works. Instead, they point fingers at the pharmaceutical industry. And they're right - big pharma can be a bunch of bastards, and they need to be regulated and watched closely. But if homeopathic remedies worked, they wouldn't be "alternative medicine". They'd be "medicine".
 
W
chansen said:
Homeopathic remedies are a scam. You'd be better off convincing yourself you have a magic pill in your hand, and eating a Tic Tac. By the time they are finished their dilutions, there is no active ingredient left. The concept of water having a memory is long debunked. If you buy a homeopathic remedy, you are literally buying nothing. It is the religion of the medicine world, in that it pretends to have answers, but contains nothing of substance.

If you are healed after taking a homeopathic remedy, thank your body for healing. It would have done it on it's own. If the placebo effect is what you needed, then again, pretend any mint is a pill.

To argue otherwise, is to say that no homeopathic company or group wants to make money. Any of them could apply for FDA approval for any of their remedies. They do not. Think of the money they could make if they could prove homeopathy works. Instead, they point fingers at the pharmaceutical industry. And they're right - big pharma can be a bunch of bastards, and they need to be regulated and watched closely. But if homeopathic remedies worked, they wouldn't be "alternative medicine". They'd be "medicine".
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What about NDs? Do you think they're scam artists? Acupuncture for some conditions (it creeps me out because of all the needles but I have met people who say it helped)?
 
ChemGal said:
So when it's something serious, homeopathy shouldn't be used, but if it's no biggie, it's ok, because well, it's no biggie?
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If you're at risk of sudden death from going without an emergency dose of medication...like an inhaler for asthma or insulin injection for diabetes, then I would not go without it. If you are looking for a treatment to heal a non-life threatening but chronic and annoying condition- personally I would try it if I could afford to rather than take a cocktail of drugs that have side effects that make me feel crappy and have so many drugs in my body I feel like a toxic waste receptacle - never knowing how the side effect of the drug they add on to the other drug to combat the side effect of the previous drug will make me feel - that's how I feel about them. I am very medication sensitive.

If I had something like cancer and there was little hope of conventional success, I would try anything.
 
Personal testimonials are the domain of the scam artist. Think of all the personal testimonials from those who say they saw Mary in a statue. People fall prey to the power of suggestion so very easily.

Naturopathic doctors? Most probably mean well, but their naturopathic concoctions are crap. Again, if they had something, they'd have proven it by now. They have nothing. They've bought the excuses. They are just like religious leaders who will tell you in so many ways, not to question God.

People's bodies heal. If a placebo is what you need, just know that you're buying a placebo. If you really need medical intervention, don't go to a homeopath. You're wasting your time.

Don't believe me? Fine. That means homeopaths are happy not making much money, and not being taken seriously in the medical community. It means they would rather not submit anything for scrutiny, even though they are confident in the result of a double blind medical trial that would see some of their safe remedies outsell Tylenol. Nah, they have all the answers, by diluting out all of the active ingredient. None of them want to get rich. They're all here to help people, not make money.

Yeah. Right.
 
chansen said:
Personal testimonials are the domain of the scam artist. Think of all the personal testimonials from those who say they saw Mary in a statue. People fall prey to the power of suggestion so very easily.

Naturopathic doctors? Most probably mean well, but their naturopathic concoctions are crap. Again, if they had something, they'd have proven it by now. They have nothing. They've bought the excuses. They are just like religious leaders who will tell you in so many ways, not to question God.

People's bodies heal. If a placebo is what you need, just know that you're buying a placebo. If you really need medical intervention, don't go to a homeopath. You're wasting your time.

Don't believe me? Fine. That means homeopaths are happy not making much money, and not being taken seriously in the medical community. It means they would rather not submit anything for scrutiny, even though they are confident in the result of a double blind medical trial that would see some of their safe remedies outsell Tylenol. Nah, they have all the answers, by diluting out all of the active ingredient. None of them want to get rich. They're all here to help people, not make money.

Yeah. Right.
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I highly disagree with your ND claim. They are highly trained. And I have met enough friends and acquaintances that use them with success, I can trust their judgment. As well as someone I know, who comes from Europe and is very well educated - who is an ND. I haven't asked her for free treatment but I have picked her brain for advice at parties.

I think a good part of why they aren't as well recognized is because big pharma just has more money and power behind it. NDs lost in the competition to be supported by universal medical plans. Docs are pressured for expediency...it's down to the 15 min. appointment. And much of their continuing Ed is funded by big pharma. That 'has to' be considered.
 
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Kimmio said:
I highly disagree with your ND claim. They are highly trained. And I have met enough friends and acquaintances that use them with success, I can trust their judgment. As well as someone I know, who comes from Europe and is very well educated - who is an ND. I haven't asked her for free treatment but I have picked her brain for advice at parties.
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Some training that some NDs have is useful, it's not 100% junk. The problem is, they are much more limited, the stuff that works MDs can also use. To top it off they are also trained in a bunch of BS.
For example, I know of people who went to NDs who are 'highly trained' in this:

http://www.foodsmatter.com/natural_medicine_comp_therapies/bioresonance/articles/bioresonance.html

There is zero evidence that it works. You could throw darts at a board with a list of foods and get similar accuracy.
 
ChemGal said:
Some training that some NDs have is useful, it's not 100% junk. The problem is, they are much more limited, the stuff that works MDs can also use. To top it off they are also trained in a bunch of BS.
For example, I know of people who went to NDs who are 'highly trained' in this:

http://www.foodsmatter.com/natural_medicine_comp_therapies/bioresonance/articles/bioresonance.html

There is zero evidence that it works. You could throw darts at a board with a list of foods and get similar accuracy.
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You live in Alberta. It's not as popular. If you were here you could have reputable NDs recommended to you and there are a few doctors who respect them. The doctor I went to that I like is one of them and he's an ethicist.
 
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