What is sin?

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chansen said:
Do you think any of those "Holy books" could be the work of scam artists?
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Well, I don't really know for sure . . . so it is possible.

chansen said:
How would you tell the difference between a book written for the purposes of gaining influence and power, and a book sincerely written by people about a God to the best of their ability?
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Again, I can't really tell . . . but if it contained something that didn't sit well with my spirit for some reason, I would question it. Perhaps a book written for the purpose of gaining influence and power (although written deceptively) might yet have snippets of wisdom or revelation in some way for me. Perhaps a book written by people about a God to the best of their ability might also have snippets of wisdom or revelation in some way for me. It is about where I am at, and whether the words or ideas invoke something in me or touch me in some way. I do not think there is any one book (holy or not) that totally encompasses all God is for me.
 
Northwind said:
Blackbelt you need to read Gord's post again. Hitler broke THE social contract. A contract is between between one person and at least one other. A social contract is often more than that. Of course Hitler felt what he was doing was right. Did the rest of the world?
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Umm something odd in the quoting.......
I never posted anything about Hitler.
 
chansen said:
Well explained, BB. Thanks.
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The reasons why I accept the bible as truth :

1) The physical historical life of Jesus

2) Jesus Ministry

3) Jesus validation of scriptures as truth

4) Jesus miracle works

5) Jesus control of natural forces, physical death of Lazarus included

6) Jesus promise of the Spirit to believers

7) Jesus own death, (ultimate unconditional Love)

8) Jesus resurrection in a new physical body

9) 500 witnesses of the Resurrection of Jesus

10)Written Historical records from Roman Historians of the resurrection

11)The explosion of the early Christian church

12)The cruel murder of whole families (Christian martyrs) in the coliseum

13)Millions upon millions of testimonies worldwide , including my own

14)My personal relationship with Christ


And last but not least which I don’t expect you to understand, The Spirit itself who testifies to all of the above especially the Resurrection
 
Witch said:
I'm referring to the minimum qualification.
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Still, relevance? How is it even a minimum qualification? Seems totally unrelated to me. See above re: "common but unexamined trope".

Witch said:
I'm not suggesting that any morality that has a source outside the human condition would be objective, only that having a source outside humanity would be a requirement for objectivity.
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The source would have to not be another conscious being, because that would make it subjective. Gods are ruled out.

In a sense, of course, all morality is objective. It all objectively exists within our minds. All moral values are objective in the sense that we all really are evaluating things morally. It's something that really happens, and is thus a part of objective morality. But of course that isn't what people mean when they say "objective morality" or "objective value".

The problem with the whole idea of "objective morality" is that moral statements are essentially evaluations. But evaluation is an action. It is necessarily carried out by an entity, yet values that are held by an entity are by definition subjective.

"Objective value" (of which morality is a subset) is a self-contradictory, incoherent idea.
 
GordW said:
Umm something odd in the quoting.......
I never posted anything about Hitler.
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@Northwind , can you edit your quote of GordW above? Your words "GordW said.." is incorrect.

See
Northwind said:
Blackbelt you need to read Gord's post again. Hitler broke THE social contract. A contract is between between one person and at least one other. A social contract is often more than that. Of course Hitler felt what he was doing was right. Did the rest of the world?
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crazyheart said:
too funny. chansen
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Yeah - that was a good one.

I actually have several versions on my kindle now - plus a Bible app on my Windows Phone - one on my laptop - and several real copies. I also read from - and listen to - many versions on http://biblegateway.com

Speaking of listening to - that's another benefit of many eBooks. They offer text-to-speech.
 
I argue that it is impossible to observe the first and not the second John. In fact I think they are really two halves of one commandment.
 
I think the very unitiveness of the universe is an objective morality. Whatever goes against the spirit of unity, then, is morally wrong.
 
Azdgari said:
How would one go about doing such a thing?
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If I may..., there are over 3 billion people living in poverty today and the pollution of our Planet is worse and getting worse.

These are 2 problems which humanity can solve right now. All it takes is enough people with the right mind set to create a tsunami. We're going to be amazed at how little help can make a difference and change the thinking of people. Image what a lot of help, and maybe even what the eradication of poverty all together (for the first time in recorded history), could do to our collective consciousness?
 
Neo said:
If I may..., there are over 3 billion people living in poverty today and the pollution of our Planet is worse and getting worse.
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Yes. That is a problem for humanity, but what does it have to do with the unity of the universe?
Neo said:
These are 2 problems which humanity can solve right now. All it takes is enough people with the right mind set to create a tsunami. We're going to be amazed at how little help can make a difference and therefore change the thinking of people. Image what a lot of help could do and maybe even what the eradication of poverty all together (for the first time in recorded history) could do to our collective consciousness.
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I agree with your sentiments, Neo, but I still fail to see what they have to do with what I asked of Arm.
 
Azdgari said:
Yes. That is a problem for humanity, but what does it have to do with the unity of the universe?

I agree with your sentiments, Neo, but I still fail to see what they have to do with what I asked of Arm.
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The way I see it, is that this "unity of universe" is equivalent to the global consciousness of Humanity. We will become "at-one" with our place in the universe.
 
Azdgari said:
Yes. That is a problem for humanity, but what does it have to do with the unity of the universe?
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If we saw ourselves as part of something bigger, whether it is the universe or just "humanity" rather than as individual "islands", then the starving child in Africa might matter on a deeper level than simply saying "That's sad" but thanking God it is someone and somewhere else as we write our cheque. Longterm solutions might happen if we saw that child as somehow connected to us on a deep level rather than as simply another island, albeit a troubled one.
 
Neo said:
The way I see it, is that this "unity of universe" is equivalent to the global consciousness of Humanity. We will become "at-one" with our place in the universe.
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That's awfully big of ourselves, no? To think that our human global consciousness is universal in importance and scale? The height of arrogance, that. No, scratch that, the height of arrogance would be to place the importance of one's own consciousness on a universal scale. But doing so with one's species is still up there.

Mendalla said:
If we saw ourselves as part of something bigger, whether it is the universe or just "humanity" rather than as individual "islands", then the starving child in Africa might matter on a deeper level than simply saying "That's sad" but thanking God it is someone and somewhere else as we write our cheque. Longterm solutions might happen if we saw that child as somehow connected to us on a deep level rather than as simply another island, albeit a troubled one.
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Well objectively, we are part of a unified universe. Distinctions between segments of the universe are an invention, a tool, of the human mind. I just fail to see what that has to do with objective versus subjective morality. Arm said that he thinks going against the universe's unitiveness is objectively immoral. But the unitiveness of the universe is a physical fact. We literally cannot go against it.
 
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