What is Faith? It is not trust.

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Jae said:
Course, in the New Testament, while faith's often a significant theme, Jesus' compassion and power to heal were not always contingent on the individual's faith
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True, but "Jesus' compassion and power to heal" were a function of His faith, i. e. His intimate connection with His heavenly Father.
For us, that level of faith can be sought, but cannot be manufactured by sheer willpower; rather, it must be divinely imparted as a gift.
I wish I knew why God has not imparted effective healing faith to me, so I might be able to take corrective measures.

That issue illustrates why I'm so intrigued by the spectacular healing miracles at Lourdes, verified by secular medical specialists who take years of investigation before t their verdicts. And of course, many pilgrims are miraculously healed there without bothering with the demands of time and energy of that committee's investigations. I hope, so far in vain, to learn helpful insights from this phenomenon.

Then there is the case of my friend Dave's healing miracle in the restaurant I can see from my apartment window. Dave had a very painful blood clot from his ankle to his groin area and his doctors warned him not to go out, lest a piece of that clot break loose and go to his heart or brain. Despite the pain, a stir-crazy Dave decided to take the risk of eating at that nearby restaurant. In walked Mark, a Charismatic Christian, who approached Dave's table and asked him if he had a serious physical condition that needed prayer. Embarrassed, Dave had to admit he did. How could Mark know? Spiritual discernment! Then Mark asked if Dave wanted prayer. Dave and his wife felt awkward with nearby customers listening in, but felt trapped into admitting the truth. Dave hoped that Mark would pray quietly so as not to draw too much attention, but instead Mark prayed loudly for healing and Dave was instantlly healed.! I later met Mark and discussed the miracle--and that table is now a type of holy shrine for me during my weekly visits to that restaurant.

If I had been in Mark's place, I would have prayed quietly to hedge my bets in case my healing prayer failed. That's another way of admitting that I've never experienced the confident healing faith that was Mark's gift, at least in that situation.
 
Pavlos Maros said:
What word or synonym would be appropriate, when someone does something extremely foolish or idiotic? Could you say for instant Imbecilic or
Imbecile-like, as long as you are not calling them an imbecile directly.
And what of quid pro quo when someone is constantly rude to or about you.
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Imho, on rare occasion, saying that something someone has said is imbecilic, or crazy, or stupid, etc. should be fine. Because I think that we all say nutty things from time to time. I know I do.

However, once you start labeling people themselves, that's crossing the line
 
Did Jesus as IOsu bring light into the shadows by making pit hoes in des now ... and how the mess of reality unravels from false evaluations by priors ...

There are compound issues that are not for those accepting only simple ... so engendered ... and rising again as dissonant of the sordid end of the stick ... thus sometimes the powers shove it to us as they can't take what they dish out ... a' priori? Well initially it was deep ... but made shallow by corruption ...
 
Mystic said:
True, but "Jesus' compassion and power to heal" were a function of His faith, i. e. His intimate connection with His heavenly Father.
For us, that level of faith can be sought, but cannot be manufactured by sheer willpower; rather, it must be divinely imparted as a gift.
I wish I knew why God has not imparted effective healing faith to me, so I might be able to take corrective measures.

That issue illustrates why I'm so intrigued by the spectacular healing miracles at Lourdes, verified by secular medical specialists who take years of investigation before t their verdicts. And of course, many pilgrims are miraculously healed there without bothering with the demands of time and energy of that committee's investigations. I hope, so far in vain, to learn helpful insights from this phenomenon.

Then there is the case of my friend Dave's healing miracle in the restaurant I can see from my apartment window. Dave had a very painful blood clot from his ankle to his groin area and his doctors warned him not to go out, lest a piece of that clot break loose and go to his heart or brain. Despite the pain, a stir-crazy Dave decided to take the risk of eating at that nearby restaurant. In walked Mark, a Charismatic Christian, who approached Dave's table and asked him if he had a serious physical condition that needed prayer. Embarrassed, Dave had to admit he did. How could Mark know? Spiritual discernment! Then Mark asked if Dave wanted prayer. Dave and his wife felt awkward with nearby customers listening in, but felt trapped into admitting the truth. Dave hoped that Mark would pray quietly so as not to draw too much attention, but instead Mark prayed loudly for healing and Dave was instantlly healed.! I later met Mark and discussed the miracle--and that table is now a type of holy shrin back ae for me during my weekly visits to that restaurant.

If I had been in Mark's place, I would have prayed quietly to hedge my bets in case my healing prayer failed. That's another way of admitting that I've never experienced the confident healing faith that was Mark's gift, at least in that situation.
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What lie are you accusing Chansen of? I read back a few posts. Your comments in this post seem to validate his statement and justify his reply.
 
Jae said:
Imho, on rare occasion, saying that something someone has said is imbecilic, or crazy, or stupid, etc. should be fine. Because I think that we all say nutty things from time to time. I know I do.

However, once you start labeling people themselves, that's crossing the line
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That's exactly where the line is, in fact. "We make arguments for or against an idea, not against a person," is right in our values.
 
Jae said:
Imho, on rare occasion, saying that something someone has said is imbecilic, or crazy, or stupid, etc. should be fine. Because I think that we all say nutty things from time to time. I know I do.

However, once you start labeling people themselves, that's crossing the line
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However, when they misquote you and label you. It's ok. You can't reciprocate. Ok, that makes perfect sense.
An ad hom goes both ways, sometimes it is the only response a troll understands.
 
To whom it may concern.

I don't agree with tone policing. especially when it is apt. Saying a person is being imbecilic, is okay when in a debate but saying they are an imbecile is not. Yet if that person has been imbecilic 100/1000 times are they not effectively an imbecile? If a person repeatedly makes the same mistake, their behaviour and identity are aligned. The repeated nature of the mistake suggests that the behaviour is not just situational but reflects a more ingrained aspect of their identity.

Using strong language like "imbecile" can, in some cases, be interpreted as a sign of firmness or assertiveness rather than pettiness. By staying composed, you preserve your credibility and make it clear who’s taking the higher road. Whether or not it is effective or justified depends largely on context, tone, and intent, at the time of the incident. Using those types of words serves as a wake-up call. It signals that their behaviour has crossed a line and will no longer be tolerated. And you won't be intimidated. The use of strong language is seen as a demonstration of confidence and unwillingness to tolerate nonsense, provided it’s delivered calmly and with purpose. In the end, what matters most is whether your approach aligns with your values and the message you want to convey.

So from now on I will use the term imbecilic. Even though people tend to repeat their mistakes, I will refrain from the true word, and try to keep the peace.
 
chansen: "And the United Church was fine with you accusing me of "not wanting healing that badly" when my son was in the Cardiac Critical Care Unit at Sick Kids Toronto."
The absurd lie is that I accused chansen of "not wanting healing that badly" for his young son.
chansen's pain was understandably on open display in his posts during that period. We all badly want healing for our gravely ill loved ones.
The issue is whether we have effective divinely imparted faith for that healing. Even then, God often says No and the line between wishful thinking and effective imparted faith is often elusive. I have repeatedly admitted that I have seen people healed through prayer groups that I've been a part of, but I've never have the privilege of privately praying for someone's healing and witnessed a healing miracle. So why would I expect an atheist like chansen to be able to conjure up effective faith for healing?
 
Mystic said:
chansen: "And the United Church was fine with you accusing me of "not wanting healing that badly" when my son was in the Cardiac Critical Care Unit at Sick Kids Toronto."
The absurd lie is that I accused chansen of "not wanting healing that badly" for his young son.
chansen's pain was understandably on open display in his posts during that period. We all badly want healing for our gravely ill loved ones.
The issue is whether we have effective divinely imparted faith for that healing. Even then, God often says No and the line between wishful thinking and effective imparted faith is often elusive. I have repeatedly admitted that I have seen people healed through prayer groups that I've been a part of, but I've never have the privilege of privately praying for someone's healing and witnessed a healing miracle. So why would I expect an atheist like chansen to be able to conjure up effective faith for healing?
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Just drop it, and never ever try to comfort someone until you know how!
And learn to apologize sincerely, (pray for it.)
 
Mystic said:
chansen: "And the United Church was fine with you accusing me of "not wanting healing that badly" when my son was in the Cardiac Critical Care Unit at Sick Kids Toronto."
The absurd lie is that I accused chansen of "not wanting healing that badly" for his young son.
chansen's pain was understandably on open display in his posts during that period. We all badly want healing for our gravely ill loved ones.
The issue is whether we have effective divinely imparted faith for that healing. Even then, God often says No and the line between wishful thinking and effective imparted faith is often elusive. I have repeatedly admitted that I have seen people healed through prayer groups that I've been a part of, but I've never have the privilege of privately praying for someone's healing and witnessed a healing miracle. So why would I expect an atheist like chansen to be able to conjure up effective faith for healing?
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How's that the issue, Mystic, when, as I've already shared, "...in the New Testament, while faith's often a significant theme, Jesus' compassion and power to heal were not always contingent on the individual's faith"

I believe that Jesus' healing ability's not limited by whether someone has faith or not
 
Waterfall said:
Just drop it,
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I did drop it. But jim kenney asked for clarification.
Waterfall said:
and never ever try to comfort someone until you know how!
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A haughty judgmental statement about someone you only know casually online. I have many years of experience as a pastoral counselor.
In fact, a while ago, a waitress in the nearby restaurant, said a female customer shared with her that my willingness to listen to her pour out her hearf saved her from committing suicide.

Waterfall said:
And learn to apologize sincerely, (pray for it.)
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For what?
 
"I have many years of experience as a pastoral counselor."

Does the evidence incarnate or appear as not ... so we run into kines ... a bossy kind ...
 
Look, he doesn't get it. Berserk/Mystic is the most narcissistic, self-aggrandizing person Wondercafe has ever seen. He doesn't even understand how true that statement is.

He is the therefore the worst human being we've ever been graced with. Again, not a lie. Not really up for debate. A few of you need reminding, but he can be counted on for that.

He is a failed academic, taking big degrees from Harvard and Princeton to small churches and carrying an even smaller amount of charisma with him, we know he failed at his last church. And so he brings his talents here so he can continue to lecture. And we let him. We keep letting him. We give evil a platform. I don't know why.

Berserk, you drop names. When people talk about the worst things anyone has ever said to them, the one name I drop is yours, with that quote. I get blank stares back. You are the poster child for the morally repugnant among the faithful. I'd be quite willing to forget you exist, but you continue to return here where I have friends and so I can't. You ambulance-chasing, wish dot com Benny Hinn.
 
Okay. Mystic claims he did not say that. Chansen claims he did. Enough said. Sorry for extending the discussion.
 
Some individuals are marked by an extraordinary capacity for failure, their every action a testament to poor judgment and unrelenting incompetence. This kind of person is consistently risible, not because of any deliberate attempt to amuse, but because their choices and behavior so consistently border on absurdity that laughter becomes an almost involuntary response.

There are two individuals here in this forum, who fit this description with perfection.
Mentioning no names, however, one once referred to himself as crazy and now he believes he is numinous and the other is not safe. Make from that what you will.

Their mistakes are not occasional missteps, but a defining characteristic. In work, in conversation, and even in private moments, their actions lack thought or foresight. They confuse simplicity for ease, underestimating every task while overestimating their own abilities. Their errors are not momentary lapses but part of an ongoing cycle, where no lesson is learned, and no wisdom is gained.

What makes them particularly exasperating is their inability to recognize their own folly. Self-awareness, a trait that might temper their ineptitude, is entirely absent. Instead, they press on with confidence entirely disproportionate to their competence, oblivious to the mockery that follows in their wake.

There is no tragedy in their failures, for pity cannot extend to someone so consistently absurd. Nor is there joy, for their blunders lack charm or wit. They are a spectacle, but one devoid of value, an ongoing reminder of how thoughtlessness and arrogance combine to create someone irredeemably foolish and forever risible.
 
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