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BetteTheRed said:
Interestingly enough, though, the "correct" lens leads one to believe exactly as do blackbelt and unsafe. What if you two disagree on something? Who has the "wrong" lens in that case?
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when it comes to the basic tenants of Christianity we are on the same page as Evangelicals
 
When the most incompetent people in the room are supremely confident about an answer they can't justify with anything but claims of authority, it's like a warning beacon.
 
Unsafe posted this--
All Ministers preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ should have the Holy Spirit indwelling in them -----that should be mandatory as it should be for all who teach ministers to be ministers in my opinion ---- If the Minister does not believe in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to preach God's word he should not be allowed to preach in my opinion -----as they are preaching another Gospel ---their own ---- not the one Directed by God ------

Airclean post---
This I feel is very important. I too believe those who would preach GODS word," should have indwelling of the," Holy Spirit".I see know other way "they can teach but by the teacher. airclean33
 
I agree. Ministers should be subject to random Holy Spirit testing, ideally administered by the World Anti-Doping Agency. Only in this case, of course, you're looking for evidence of a dope.
 
airclean33 said:
Unsafe posted this--
All Ministers preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ should have the Holy Spirit indwelling in them -----that should be mandatory as it should be for all who teach ministers to be ministers in my opinion ---- If the Minister does not believe in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to preach God's word he should not be allowed to preach in my opinion -----as they are preaching another Gospel ---their own ---- not the one Directed by God ------

Airclean post---
This I feel is very important. I too believe those who would preach GODS word," should have indwelling of the," Holy Spirit".I see know other way "they can teach but by the teacher. airclean33
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I agree too
 
I think a clear definition of what exactly is the "Holy Spirit" is required before any one particular religion or sect of that religion can be identified as the true speakers for God. It can't be just "believing", that would be naive. It has to be much more that that, for believing without sincerity of heart or honesty of mind, for instance, would always fail.
 
chansen said:
I agree. Ministers should be subject to random Holy Spirit testing, ideally administered by the World Anti-Doping Agency. Only in this case, of course, you're looking for evidence of a dope.
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Agreed with and chuckled over the first part of this. Disagree with the second. There are some very intelligent ministers.
 
airclean33 said:
Unsafe posted this--
All Ministers preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ should have the Holy Spirit indwelling in them -----that should be mandatory as it should be for all who teach ministers to be ministers in my opinion ---- If the Minister does not believe in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to preach God's word he should not be allowed to preach in my opinion -----as they are preaching another Gospel ---their own ---- not the one Directed by God ------

Airclean post---
This I feel is very important. I too believe those who would preach GODS word," should have indwelling of the," Holy Spirit".I see and know no other way "they can teach but by the teacher. airclean33
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--We live by every word that comes from GOD.
 
airclean33 said:
Unsafe posted this--
All Ministers preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ should have the Holy Spirit indwelling in them -----that should be mandatory as it should be for all who teach ministers to be ministers in my opinion ---- If the Minister does not believe in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to preach God's word he should not be allowed to preach in my opinion -----as they are preaching another Gospel ---their own ---- not the one Directed by God ------

Airclean post---
This I feel is very important. I too believe those who would preach GODS word," should have indwelling of the," Holy Spirit".I see know other way "they can teach but by the teacher. airclean33
Click to expand...

Is the Hoeli-e Spirit a great vacancy of intelligencia?
 
chansen said:
I agree. Ministers should be subject to random Holy Spirit testing, ideally administered by the World Anti-Doping Agency. Only in this case, of course, you're looking for evidence of a dope.
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Can absence of dopes be proven by vacancy of intelligence?
 
Neo ---your quote -----I think a clear definition of what exactly is the "Holy Spirit" is required before any one particular religion or sect of that religion can be identified as the true speakers for God

unsafe says ----
The Holy Spirit is of no religion -----The Holy Spirit is God ----and God is of no Religion ----The Holy Spirit is the 3rd person of God who has many functions one of which is to convict the hearts and minds of sinners -----

John 16:5-11Amplified Bible (AMP)

The Holy Spirit Promised
5 “But now I am going to Him who sent Me; and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’6 But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your hearts[and taken complete possession of them].7 But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the[a]Helper (Comforter, Advocate, Intercessor—Counselor, Strengthener, Standby) will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him (the Holy Spirit) to you[to be in close fellowship with you].8 And He, when He comes, will convict the world about[the guilt of]sin[and the need for a Savior],and about righteousness, and about judgment:9 about sin[and the true nature of it],because they do not believe in Me[and My message];10 about righteousness[personal integrity and godly character],because I am going to My Father and you will no longer see Me;11 about judgment[the certainty of it],because the ruler of this world (Satan) has been judged and condemned.

unsafe says ----
Believers who have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit are not convicted of sin by God because even though we will still sin God the Father looks at us through His Son who was sinless and God has forgiven all past --present and future sins of His Children -----His Children are free from the Bondage of sin -----

Romans 8:1Amplified Bible (AMP)
Escape from Bondage

8 Therefore there is now no condemnation [no guilty verdict, no punishment] for those who are in Christ Jesus [who believe in Him as personal Lord and Savior].an article


The Holy Spirit Gives Spiritual Gifts ----this is an article on the Holy Spirit ---I posted only a couple of things from it ---you can read all here if interested -----https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-8-study-holy-spirit

Spiritual Gifts

Lastly, every person who has been born again receives a spiritual gift from the Holy Spirit. Paul writes: “Now there are different gifts, but the same Spirit. . .

Lists of spiritual gifts occur inRomans 12;1 Corinthians 12andEphesians 4. The gifts are listed in the order in which they are given.
Romans 12
1 Corinthians
Ephesians 4
Prophecy
apostle
apostle
Service
prophet
prophet
Teaching
teacher
evangelist
Exhortation
miracles
pastor
Contributing
gifts of healing
teacher4
Leadership
helps
Mercy
gifts of leadership
different kinds of tongues
message of wisdom
message of knowledge
faith
interpretation of tongues
discernment of spirits

The Post-Conversion Work of the Holy Spirit
What is the role of the Holy Spirit following conversion? The filling, empowering and guiding of the believer is included in this part of the Holy Spirit’s ministry.


Conclusion
In conclusion, Christians should not be afraid of the Holy Spirit but rather look to the Spirit for guidance and spiritual strength. The Holy Spirit is alive and active today in the lives of both believers and unbelievers.10As Christians, we are to be eternally grateful that the Holy Spirit is our permanent indwelling companion, gifting us to serve others and empowering us to live the Christian life. He is to be respected, followed and cherished.
 
unsafe, whatever is dwelling inside of you, people have a right to be afraid of being similarly afflicted.
 
unsafe said:
unsafe says ----
Believers who have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit are not convicted of sin by God because even though we will still sin God the Father looks at us through His Son who was sinless and God has forgiven all past --present and future sins of His Children -----His Children are free from the Bondage of sin -----

Romans 8:1Amplified Bible (AMP)
Escape from Bondage

8 Therefore there is now no condemnation [no guilty verdict, no punishment] for those who are in Christ Jesus [who believe in Him as personal Lord and Savior].an article
.
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You don't see a difference between being convicted of sin and being condemned for sin?
 
chansen said:
Not sure I have the means of selectively killing the brain cells required for me to want that.
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On the other hand ...you seem to be evidence that means have been found to decrease desire to repent - using an airborne vaccine that selectively kill the brain cells (or God Genes) required for you to want that . Effectiveness is being measured by a decrease in people repenting and increase in ... telephone, email, and other forms of communication that express discontent with religion or God.
 
unsafe said:
Neo ---your quote -----I think a clear definition of what exactly is the "Holy Spirit" is required before any one particular religion or sect of that religion can be identified as the true speakers for God

unsafe says ----
The Holy Spirit is of no religion -----The Holy Spirit is God ----and God is of no Religion ----The Holy Spirit is the 3rd person of God who has many functions one of which is to convict the hearts and minds of sinners -----

John 16:5-11Amplified Bible (AMP)

The Holy Spirit Promised
5 “But now I am going to Him who sent Me; and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’6 But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your hearts[and taken complete possession of them].7 But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the[a]Helper (Comforter, Advocate, Intercessor—Counselor, Strengthener, Standby) will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him (the Holy Spirit) to you[to be in close fellowship with you].8 And He, when He comes, will convict the world about[the guilt of]sin[and the need for a Savior],and about righteousness, and about judgment:9 about sin[and the true nature of it],because they do not believe in Me[and My message];10 about righteousness[personal integrity and godly character],because I am going to My Father and you will no longer see Me;11 about judgment[the certainty of it],because the ruler of this world (Satan) has been judged and condemned.

unsafe says ----
Believers who have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit are not convicted of sin by God because even though we will still sin God the Father looks at us through His Son who was sinless and God has forgiven all past --present and future sins of His Children -----His Children are free from the Bondage of sin -----

Romans 8:1Amplified Bible (AMP)
Escape from Bondage

8 Therefore there is now no condemnation [no guilty verdict, no punishment] for those who are in Christ Jesus [who believe in Him as personal Lord and Savior].an article


The Holy Spirit Gives Spiritual Gifts ----this is an article on the Holy Spirit ---I posted only a couple of things from it ---you can read all here if interested -----https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-8-study-holy-spirit

Spiritual Gifts

Lastly, every person who has been born again receives a spiritual gift from the Holy Spirit. Paul writes: “Now there are different gifts, but the same Spirit. . .

Lists of spiritual gifts occur inRomans 12;1 Corinthians 12andEphesians 4. The gifts are listed in the order in which they are given.
Romans 12
1 Corinthians
Ephesians 4
Prophecy
apostle
apostle
Service
prophet
prophet
Teaching
teacher
evangelist
Exhortation
miracles
pastor
Contributing
gifts of healing
teacher4
Leadership
helps
Mercy
gifts of leadership
different kinds of tongues
message of wisdom
message of knowledge
faith
interpretation of tongues
discernment of spirits

The Post-Conversion Work of the Holy Spirit
What is the role of the Holy Spirit following conversion? The filling, empowering and guiding of the believer is included in this part of the Holy Spirit’s ministry.


Conclusion
In conclusion, Christians should not be afraid of the Holy Spirit but rather look to the Spirit for guidance and spiritual strength. The Holy Spirit is alive and active today in the lives of both believers and unbelievers.10As Christians, we are to be eternally grateful that the Holy Spirit is our permanent indwelling companion, gifting us to serve others and empowering us to live the Christian life. He is to be respected, followed and cherished.
Click to expand...
This is still no clear definition of how we know if one has the Holy Spirit within them.
  • You say one must have faith and "believe"? Well, even Robert Baden-Powell incorporated the idea of belief in a higher power in his Scout movement. Belief in God is fundamental in all religions. There's nothing new about this within Christianity.
  • You say one must be "born again"? Again, look up the Hindu concept of "twice born", i.e. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvija. This is not a new concept to Christianity.
  • You quoted Romans 8:1, which says "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus" but you omitted the rest of the sentence, which qualifies "them" as those "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" This concept too is a fundamental precept in practically all religions, i.e. it's the idea that the visible and ephemeral form will always lead to suffering because that which was was born in time and space will therefore die in time and space. The Spirit, however, is invisible and eternal and will live forevermore, just as energy can't be created or destroyed, a concept that defines the first law of thermodynamics.
  • You said above that "God is of no Religion". Therefore, by that rational anyone should be able to find God and not be required to be a Christian at all. If God is omnipotent then surely It can manifest through all religion and no religion.
  • As for all the "gifts" you sight, well any charlatan could do those, there's nothing defining or of proof about them.
I see God differently. I personally have a different belief regarding who and what the Christ is, for instance. Not your typical orthodox Christian doctrine, but who's really to say what the truth is, from our own points of view the truth is always changing. You say, for instance, that Jesus is the 2nd Person of God, I say the Christ is the Soul of Humanity, the Intermediator between Spirit and Matter. You say the Holy Spirit is the 3rd Person of God, I say it's a force known as a Creative Intelligence working through form and matter. Both of which (form and matter), by the way, are illusionary aspects of nature, which is the reason the 3rd Person is also known as the "Holy Ghost", because like a ghost it changes form as it works it's way through nature.

Our view of God changes according to our awareness, and our awareness changes our point of view. You view God in strictly religious terms, which is ok from your point of view, it's how you are supposed to view God. I personally tend to see things in an esoteric scientific and modern sense. Both views, I believe, are relative truths. The Absolute Truth, however, always stands beyond human thought or expression.

God, says the esoteric teachings, manifests through three sacred FIRES. But what we call those FIRES changes over time, for what we call them are just labels and points of views of the same thing.
  • ELECTRIC FIRE, or SPIRIT
    • 1st Person - Father, Life, Will, Purpose, Positive energy.
  • SOLAR FIRE, or SOUL
    • 2nd Person - Son, Consciousness, Love-Wisdom, Equilibrized energy.
  • FIRE BY FRICTION (Body or Matter)
    • 3rd Person - Holy Spirit, Form, Active Intelligence, Negative energy.
 
If the first person gets a rub from a second person ... will negative energy erupt because the first person (authority) didn't wish to know, or think in such terms as they despise the god of knowledge and wisdom (philosophy; by definition as denied the people of god) of unbounded things (them left with nothing, but apropos space for manufacturing set-up)? Do you recall the Greek origins of apropos as myth? One really should know myths as source of many word ... a god-awe sum etude to put together! Really! very large Job.

Some strange alien tongues (like Runes, Runic Code) and interpretation required as without nothing will have meaning and understanding (understanding being mentioned dozens of time in bilious words of dark of jealous, vengeful, and hostile gods attitudes about what mortals do ... constantly crapping on Reuben ... which is due to the lord of san de witch ... or putting grit on bewitching words you don't understand ... so help me god they did this with Copperplate ... a tensile print! It was popular way back when ink didn't dry fast ... and excess ran off like politic when whetted ... just for chaos and confusion when doing letters up for the love of IT!

Does this place a foggy definition on mortal persons ... who have been thus confined to what they are only learning from restriction of oligarchs? Thus the sol is caught and hung up over physical possession ... a bit of prosody ... thus fastened they can ring and vibrate like a bell ... some say like the whine of a violin ... and many theologians as well a pagans despise whines ...

These are contrary people according to Charles Baudelaire who suggests whine, virtue and crude poetry as something to take the place of rods of glass, rubber, Asclepius and materials of silk, fur and alternative factors to do some weaving amongst those that know knot definitions after encountering the knotty lass of Shady Laine ... that'd be Frankie obscured in another Bodleian Masque ... as knowledge and intelligencia must be hidden when in a world of the stoned .. unmovable on what they know is potentially in error ... given the lies passed around by authorities on the subject.

Now if one learns by model ... how do the copies do anything different? That's enough to get buts up and rising ... Jack asses in a stink or mere pew? --- Pierre Burton! Paraphrased as I am not allowed to repeat without his permission ... and I'm not far enough out yet to contact the truly dead ...
 
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