United With God

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I don't think it's a problem that you proclaim your faith. I think it's a problem that you insist a minimum faith for others. Just as I don't support mandatory non-faith. As a denomination, you managed to foster an environment where all questions were allowed and some people reasoned themselves out of faith. It happens. It happened. Now people want to go back. That's going to be a problem.
 
airclean33 said:
--Hi Dave --Don't give up so easy.

Airclean-post Chansen-- This from a guy who says there is no GOD. Yet can't prove it.--BANG--;)
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Everyone knows the rebuttal to that. You know it. You just can't admit you know it.

If I was a Christian, I'd be imploring you to shut up. I'm not. You demonstrate what religious faith can do to a person. It's unsettling.
 
Dave Henderson said:
On January 1st I began a national, grassroots campaign called United With God, joyfully proclaiming God in our lives, the world and the United Church of Canada. United with God affirms the absolute necessity of God's loving presence in the life-changing work for personal spiritual transformation and social justice carried out by our church and our people in the world. We acknowledge this United Church of ours defines the nature of the triune God in many different ways, yet we come together in essential agreement and love as a community of faith to celebrate the existence of God. The only goal of United With God is to proclaim God, celebrate Jesus and welcome the Holy Spirit in our lives, the world and the United Church of Canada. Our website is unitedwithgod.org Our Facebook page is simply United With God. United With God is a celebration of God in the world and in our United Church. “Grateful for God’s loving action, we cannot keep from singing.” United Church Song of Faith 2006
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I read your article about this very topic in the Pembroke Observer. It was interesting. I am glad you started a topic on it here.
 
Dave Henderson said:
Is United With God about Gretta Vosper and her atheist beliefs? No. Was it initially inspired by Gretta Vosper and her atheist beliefs? Yes. But it has become more, and better for it. I wrestled for many months regarding my future with the United Church of Canada. I prayed over it, wrestled with it and dealt with many emotions. I read our website, and our faith statements. God's word to me was stay. Not to fight, fuss and faction, but to simply proclaim God in my life, in the world and in this United Church I love so much. And it has become, for me, a joyful journey. Where will that journey end? I'm not sure, but it's one I know I need to be on.
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I have followed a similar but not identical path and I am finding myself getting closer and closer to leaving the denomination. Maybe I will, maybe I won't. But it is starting to seem like a very real possibility.
 
paradox3 said:
I have followed a similar but not identical path and I am finding myself getting closer and closer to leaving the denomination. Maybe I will, maybe I won't. But it is starting to seem like a very real possibility.
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May I ask why?
 
chansen said:
I don't think it's a problem that you proclaim your faith. I think it's a problem that you insist a minimum faith for others. Just as I don't support mandatory non-faith. As a denomination, you managed to foster an environment where all questions were allowed and some people reasoned themselves out of faith. It happens. It happened. Now people want to go back. That's going to be a problem.
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With respect Chansen, I'm not going back - because I never left. Nor have many thousands of Christians in the United Church. In fact I believe a vast majority of United Church members believe in God - and of them most believe in the triune God.
 
Dave Henderson said:
With respect Chansen, I'm not going back - because I never left. Nor have many thousands of Christians in the United Church. In fact I believe a vast majority of United Church members believe in God - and of them most believe in the triune God.
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I think you are right about the majority of United Church members yet there are many who want us to move in a post-theistic direction. Sometimes it seems to me we might be heading that way as a denomination . . . if we do I will not be sticking around.
 
Dave Henderson said:
With respect Chansen, I'm not going back - because I never left. Nor have many thousands of Christians in the United Church. In fact I believe a vast majority of United Church members believe in God - and of them most believe in the triune God.
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You never left that faith in the triune God. Others have. How many, it's difficult to tell, but not an insignificant number.

My point is that the denomination allowed and even fostered that change. That's what you're trying to reverse. You think belief in this triune God thing that you do a lousy job of explaining is the most important thing and should be where the bar is set. Many around you can't clear that bar. Their leap of faith does not go that high.
 
Dave Henderson said:
With respect Chansen, I'm not going back - because I never left. Nor have many thousands of Christians in the United Church. In fact I believe a vast majority of United Church members believe in God - and of them most believe in the triune God.
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Hmmmm - if those thousands of Christians remaining in the UCCAN don't want to talk about things in respect to their faith in god, and don't want to consider new ways of talking about this god, what good is it to anyone at all? I don't hear local UCCAN members declaring their faith in a triune god. Do I just live in the wrong part of the country? Of course, hearing you 'declaring your faith' doesn't exactly make me want to go to church either. It leaves me a bit bemused.
 
chansen said:
Everyone knows the rebuttal to that. You know it. You just can't admit you know it.

If I was a Christian, I'd be imploring you to shut up. I'm not. You demonstrate what religious faith can do to a person. It's unsettling.
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God is immaterial ... sort of like a emotional essence in a knowledgeable "c" of old salts? Some keep it controlled and confined well ... some loose their temper and other shared thoughts ... tis in essence a conflict in the greater sol ...
 
KayTheCurler said:
Hmmmm - if those thousands of Christians remaining in the UCCAN don't want to talk about things in respect to their faith in god, and don't want to consider new ways of talking about this god, what good is it to anyone at all? I don't hear local UCCAN members declaring their faith in a triune god. Do I just live in the wrong part of the country? Of course, hearing you 'declaring your faith' doesn't exactly make me want to go to church either. It leaves me a bit bemused.
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Perhaps a lot of them have not questioned the point ut forth ... "why?"

I've had it suggested that I not leave as I am a painful point to Eris' quality ... dissonance ... without disturbance does anyone ask anything ... sort of like cubits arrow ... or the point of Eros ... love can be a pain if you wish to share all with the mate"
  • Dreams
  • Greatest fears
  • Asperations ...
Leading to much pres pirations in the dark ... then the kohl down ...
 
Some like other's opinions and some will not to digest them just because of tackiness ... thus the staid on dancing ... they could be relating while standing up!
 
KayTheCurler said:
Hmmmm - if those thousands of Christians remaining in the UCCAN don't want to talk about things in respect to their faith in god, and don't want to consider new ways of talking about this god, what good is it to anyone at all? I don't hear local UCCAN members declaring their faith in a triune god. Do I just live in the wrong part of the country? Of course, hearing you 'declaring your faith' doesn't exactly make me want to go to church either. It leaves me a bit bemused.
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Perhaps this is one of the reasons I am being called to joyfully proclaim God Kay, to help folks talk about God and look at new ways to talk about God. And I know that my campaign will cause some discomfort, anger, resentment, and yes, it turns out, bemusement. And it turns out that proclaiming God is a joyful thing. For some folks it has caused joy, gratitude and encouragement.
 
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