TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

[Jaebius]

Some labels are derogatory and some are needed to explain the cultural shift.

Which of the labels you've demonized Trump with are "needed?"

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

In a democracy - not an empire - the leader should be able to take criticism. He's not a poor underdog. He's the top dawg.

 

[Northwind]

Which of the labels you've demonized Trump with are "needed?"

You know that's a good point. I think we can critique him without using labels. Labels are shortcuts and cheating.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

You know that's a good point. I think we can critique him without using labels. Labels are shortcuts and cheating.

Sounds paranoid.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Of course, I agree, to a point.

But what do you label cancer, if not cancer?

 

[Ritafee]

You make a point of doing this just to annoy me, now. You are never going to let your grudge go, are you? Liking monks irrational posts, anyone who disagrees with me -basically gas lighting, is what you're doing. Totally ignored what I said. The rational article I posted. Whatever. You are not engaged in healthy discussion. @Northwind

Gas lighting ? Really? But my posts are irrational?

You didn't read the article.

I have now reread the article 3 times .... from the conclusion of said article:

• The point of weaponized anti-redistributive ideology was to save actually existing liberal-democratic capitalism from radical socialism. But that mission was accomplished back when the parents of today’s College Republicans were rocking out to Jamiroquai. The traces of libertarianism that survive in contemporary fusionism have left many conservatives with a Jacobin’s indifference to the norms and institutions of successful liberal-democratic polities, and an unpopular vision of prosperity as freedom from redistribution.

• Now, crooked ethno-nationalist populism is eating the Republican Party, and American democracy, from the inside out. Yet most small-government conservatives are helpless to explain what’s wrong with it, barely seem to notice that it’s devouring them, and lurch robotically toward tax cuts for rich people, benefits cuts for poor people, fraudulent voter fraud commissions, and doom.

Perhaps you can explain what I am supposed to understand from this article?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

It is not possible to discuss politics and culture without naming the ideologies that have shaped and continue to influence politics and culture.

It's okay to name ideas and eras - that is different from discrimination based on unchangeable characteristics of a person. I think it's wrong to confuse those sets of values and call it all labelling @Northwind (who likely has me on ignore in this discussion about hearing the other side)

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Gas lighting ? Really? But my posts are irrational?



I have now reread the article 3 times .... from the conclusion of said article:

• The point of weaponized anti-redistributive ideology was to save actually existing liberal-democratic capitalism from radical socialism. But that mission was accomplished back when the parents of today’s College Republicans were rocking out to Jamiroquai. The traces of libertarianism that survive in contemporary fusionism have left many conservatives with a Jacobin’s indifference to the norms and institutions of successful liberal-democratic polities, and an unpopular vision of prosperity as freedom from redistribution.

• Now, crooked ethno-nationalist populism is eating the Republican Party, and American democracy, from the inside out. Yet most small-government conservatives are helpless to explain what’s wrong with it, barely seem to notice that it’s devouring them, and lurch robotically toward tax cuts for rich people, benefits cuts for poor people, fraudulent voter fraud commissions, and doom.

Perhaps you can explain what I am supposed to understand from this article?

The truth, perhaps.

 

[chansen]

It's not my part of the discussion that is paranoid and unhealthy, northwind. I know you have a grudge against me personally so you won't give my perspective an inch anymore.

That's fine. I'm done.

Clearly that's not the case.

You make a point of doing this just to annoy me, now. You are never going to let your grudge go, are you? Liking monks irrational posts - extreme libertarianism - actually anyone who disagrees with me -basically gas lighting, is what you're doing. Examine your motivations for 'likes', please. You totally ignored what I said. The rational article I posted. Whatever. You are not engaged in healthy discussion. I don't think you will admit it though - and to speak up to gas lighting makes the one gas lighted look irrational, right? I look nuts pointing it out. @Northwind

"Gaslighting" is one word. It's from an Ingrid Bergman movie. You've been reading about it, but it doesn't appear you really have a handle on its usage.

You are, once again, worked up and angry. When you're like this, you make lousy arguments and it is absolutely no fun to be on the same side of the argument as you. You are to the topic of Donald Trump as unsafe and airclean are to Christianity. You are not helping. You're once again focused on who "likes" who's posts, and taking any likes of posts against you personally. I suggest they liked the posts they thought made sense, and you are not operating in that space right now.

All of this will set you off more, of course. But letting you sabotage some of our shared positions isn't a good option to me, either. So this is where I'm at.

 

[Northwind]

Thanks @chansen

 

[Jaebius]

Of course, I agree, to a point.

But what do you label cancer, if not cancer?

Trump, like him or not, is not cancer. He is a human being, made in the image of God - same as you are. Criticize his actions or words - that's fair.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Clearly that's not the case.



"Gaslighting" is one word. It's from an Ingrid Bergman movie. You've been reading about it, but it doesn't appear you really have a handle on its usage.

You are, once again, worked up and angry. When you're like this, you make lousy arguments and it is absolutely no fun to be on the same side of the argument as you. You are to the topic of Donald Trump as unsafe and airclean are to Christianity. You are not helping. You're once again focused on who "likes" who's posts, and taking any likes of posts against you personally. I suggest they liked the posts they thought made sense, and you are not operating in that space right now.

All of this will set you off more, of course. But letting you sabotage some of our shared positions isn't a good option to me, either. So this is where I'm at.

I have good reasons for the way I feel. Gas lighting means making a person question their reality and sanity. What do you think you do when you drop into a discussion underway and lay down a criticism and leave - and if I react "told you so". Then I look unstable when I'm really just justifiably annoyed and have the right to use my voice.

Or, if someone won't speak to me, but speaks around me, and seems to "like" every post that disagrees with me no matter how insane the other view is...just to spite me. If they don't realize that's what it looks and feels like to me, then they should know. If they do realize it...they are gas lighting. It's manipulative. The emotional equivalent of stonewalling and gas lighting. More than one person has this tendency, and not just toward me. It's WC gang-up style (queue song)...or maybe it's just what's rotten about internet culture. Of course, now that I have wasted time explaining it - I lose credibility, because that's how the rotten internet works.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Trump, like him or not, is not cancer. He is a human being, made in the image of God - same as you are. Criticize his actions or words - that's fair.

Didn't say he's a cancer. The ideologies that are fuelling him are.

 

[Northwind]

@Kimmio you know full well why you are on ignore. Please stop playing the victim.

Back to the subject of the thread.

Criticize his actions or words - that's fair

Amen

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Not playing the victim. I said what I had to say.

Trump is certainly a divisive character in the world, regardless of any of us.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Clearly that's not the case.



"Gaslighting" is one word. It's from an Ingrid Bergman movie. You've been reading about it, but it doesn't appear you really have a handle on its usage.

You are, once again, worked up and angry. When you're like this, you make lousy arguments and it is absolutely no fun to be on the same side of the argument as you. You are to the topic of Donald Trump as unsafe and airclean are to Christianity. You are not helping. You're once again focused on who "likes" who's posts, and taking any likes of posts against you personally. I suggest they liked the posts they thought made sense, and you are not operating in that space right now.

All of this will set you off more, of course. But letting you sabotage some of our shared positions isn't a good option to me, either. So this is where I'm at.

Also, autocorrect wants to make it two words on my phone and is stubborn about letting me override it, so I just let it be because it's manually finicky. The same point is made regardless.

 

[Ritafee]

I agree with what you are saying. Labels have their place if they explain. Using labels to dismiss or promote is not healthy at all. I challenge you though because you are generalizing when you say that "most neighbours ignore their neighbours and look to the government to fix everything". Generalizing is not any better than labels.

I agree ... generalizing is dangerous to healthy discussion. I will try to refrain from that ... thank you for pointing it out.

 

[Ritafee]

Of course, I agree, to a point.

But what do you label cancer, if not cancer?

Cancer is the label given to a collection of related diseases.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Here is another one of those cancerous ideologies.

The scary ideology behind Trump’s immigration instincts

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Another interesting viewpoint...

The white supremacist origins of "public choice theory," the bedrock of contemporary libertarian thought