TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

[Northwind]

Arguing why universities should remain liberal was an additional point you skimmed over. So was the point about what happened in Germany to allow Hitler to thrive.

No I did not. I read that more than once. I disagreed with you and stated that more than once. I have said more than once that I believe that universities should have more balance. You would have known that had you read more and had written less.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Kimmio, don't suppose there's any chance you've ever been on a debating team? As it should be structured, students are coached in how to present arguments from more than one side of an issue. If you can't argue your point well with an opponent, your opinion needs some thinking out.

And you can't, ever, just decide that if people don't agree with you, they should shut up. Life doesn't work that way; people keep talking. You need the right in order to have the left. There has to be a balance. You need to look at, and analyze history, before predicting into future.

It's the Overton Window thing. The more fringe positions are brought into mainstream discourse the more they become normalized and acceptable. Because of orchestrated disinformation and misinformation campaigns - the far right is dominating the right side of the spectrum. Data reflects this. So, the mainstream right is now what was the far right. And that is a threat to democracy. It goes a little deeper than "I don't like it."

 

[BetteTheRed]

The disappearance of a middle class is more an economic than a social issue. Many of these kids in school who now require "safe spaces" are a product of social systems producing panicked parents desperate to exert some control in some way on their otherwise pretty out of control lives - of student loans, of contract jobs, of no pension to look forward to.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

No I did not. I read that more than once. I disagreed with you and stated that more than once. I have said more than once that I believe that universities should have more balance. You would have known that had you read more and had written less.

Well bringing the far right nazis into the debate upends the whole thing. It's like having an elephant tip the scale.

 

[Northwind]

The disappearance of a middle class is more an economic than a social issue. Many of these kids in school who now require "safe spaces" are a product of social systems producing panicked parents desperate to exert some control in some way on their otherwise pretty out of control lives - of student loans, of contract jobs, of no pension to look forward to.

And those kids in the schools have more mental health problems such as anxiety and cannot deal with life at university because they've been given "safe spaces" all their lives. That has done none of them any favours.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

The disappearance of a middle class is more an economic than a social issue. Many of these kids in school who now require "safe spaces" are a product of social systems producing panicked parents desperate to exert some control in some way on their otherwise pretty out of control lives - of student loans, of contract jobs, of no pension to look forward to.

I'm talking about the disappearance of the centre right political position. And economically - as far as a weakening middle class - there are also parallels to pre/ early Nazi Germany's. The far right was able to leverage that.

 

[Northwind]

Well bringing the far right nazis into the debate upends the whole thing. It's like having an elephant tip the scale.

Yes please repeat that one again. There is middle ground between black and white.

Is some of like Ann Coulter a far right Nazi? She was unable to speak at a Canadian university (in Ottawa?) because of variations of safe spaces.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

And those kids in the schools have more mental health problems such as anxiety and cannot deal with life at university because they've been given "safe spaces" all their lives. That has done none of them any favours.

Disagree. There is a place, and a necessity for enclave safe spaces to be carved out for minority groups within the broader university structure. But neo nazis are not just a little unsafe - they are a real threat to diversity, equality and social justice.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Yes please repeat that one again. There is middle ground between black and white.

Is some of like Ann Coulter a far right Nazi? She was unable to speak at a Canadian university (in Ottawa?) because of variations of safe spaces.

Yep. A sly one.

 

[Northwind]

Disagree. There is a place, and a necessity for enclave safe spaces to be carved out for minority groups within the broader university structure. But neo nazis are not just a little unsafe - they are a real threat to diversity, equality and social justice.

Good grief Kimmio. Please back these statements up, briefly. I will not read reams of information. You are sounding very paranoid. It does nothing to strengthen your argument.

 

[Northwind]

Yep. A sly one.

Seriously? Back that one up.

Seems like Neo-Nazis are coming out of corners everywhere. Should I look under my bed too?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Seriously? Back that one up.

Seems like Neo-Nazis are coming out of corners everywhere. Should I look under my bed too?

Overton Window.

A few years ago Trump in the WH seemed like a joke. We've all known him as a celebrity for a long time. A few years ago Ann Coulter's views seemed absurd. They were extreme. Now Trump is in the WH - that's no longer a paranoid notion. And AnnCoulter is part of the WH propaganda tool-kit. Look at who her supporters are and who Trump's base is. Look at who she associates with. Trump's election makes her part of the new elite establishment as well as the media propaganda alternative facts echo chamber that has been formed on the far right and supports Trump...which involves neo nazis. It's not paranoid. Listen to her positions on Muslims, Mexicans, feminists. She's alt-right. Which is the new neo-nazi. We've had a long time to get used to her but her views are now not just absurd ramblings as they were before the far right was in power - they are a threat.

 

[Northwind]

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Would you invite Creflo Dollar to give a sermon at your church? Or Pat Robertson? ...or do you think that might be a little too extreme and not in keeping with what you're about? Sure, welcome them in to listen, to be there and be a guest, but not to preach, right?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Prove me wrong that it is not because Universities have been liberal institutions for the past several decades that allowed social justice, equality and diversity to flourish? Isn't that just what the far right hates about liberalism?

Prove me wrong that the context re. free speech at Universities, which was what allowed the civil rights movement to happen (I agree) was not a different one - seeing as the universities were less liberal and open to diversity. Prove me wrong that the same rules don't apply in a context where that is reversed.

Prove me wrong that Ann Coulter doesn't have extreme racist/ white nationalist and extreme misogynist leanings and high power connections that lead straight to the WH.

Prove me wrong that Steve Bannon is not an alt-right media mogul with white nationalist leanings, who served as a National Security and close advisor to Trump. Before returning to a media role. Prove me wrong. Prove me wrong that he doesn't have a fascist apocalyptic worldview.

Then you can call me paranoid. Until then I think you're in denial - as are a lot of people. The world's in a bit of shock. And there will be a lot of people who remain in denial until everything we've built over decades is gone.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

there has to be a certain unity and level of agreement to stop it.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

How Ann Coulter and the racist "alt-right" are using the lefty playbook to troll Berkeley if nothing else, read the last line of that page.


This is why they need to be banned from campuses. It's because they are becoming experts at using the left's own tactics against them. They are not there for serious debate. They have their ideology and they are trolling...the whole "might show up might not...gotcha!" They're there to be a social contagion. Meanwhile the peaceful protesters who they could care less about, who they ridicule anyway, and the antifa who they've riled up (and who bring a few infiltrated provacateurs with them), all show up, and they're a no show. Laughing away, scoring points, destroying social justice by satirical stealth - and trolling. They need to be banned the way sites dedicated to mature intelligent discussion and debate ban harmful Internet trolls dedicated to harassment. Because that's exactly what they're doing. But unlike court jestors - they bow to (the)Trump (card) and mock the "peasants" - the marginalized, women, non-whites. The alt-right are insidiously evil.

If they are banned there are no protests where violence can break out. We've heard enough of their viewpoints, which are readily available and can be debated outside their presence - but I don't even know why white nationalism and extreme misogyny deserve dignified debate. And don't mistake them for people who give a crap about intelligent dignified debate anyway. Trolls don't care about that.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Or, maybe they could just tell these alt-right speakers that they are permanently expelled from post secondary campuses for plagiarism and misrepresentation of the works of Saul Alinsky. That might be kind of hilarious. Then have a bunch of clown cops - funny "Bobbies" crowd them off the stage. Simultaneously rig the sound system to blare out oompahloompah tuba music through the lecture hall, and the entire school - just so everyone knows they're there. And have a laugh-in for the duration.

But respectful debate with toxic trolls? Won't happen.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Have keystone cops ride around and hand them their expulsion papers. Double, triple book the venue with famous left wing political satirists. "Oops." If they're uncomfortable with this, tell them to go back to their safe spaces on 8chan and the "newsrooms" at Infowars, etc. Have giant blow-up Obamas in the room looking down on the podium. Drop confetti and balloons on stage and sound an airhorn and project the word "Drink!" on the wall every time they say "liberal elite". Make that "snowflake" confetti. Design the room in a "Winterfest" theme - make sure there are lots of snowflake motifs around the stage, near the podium. Decorate the entire school. No matter what season it is. Embarrass them.

In the meantime the left needs new strategies because the far right has subverted their tactics. Talking sense won't work with these "jokesters". The thing is, they're jokesters with a nefarious agenda and connections to the WH. That much, I think, needs to be taken seriously.

 

[Luce NDs]

God ND the devil are in the detailing ... snip, snip ...

See the art piece Ancient of Days and see if you can connect to the Edward person ... Eddie? Perhaps Eve a' line allowing for nominal redaction of word and thought to stimulate sol when at rest ... dissonance of strange nature?