TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

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Graeme Decarie said:
Christian churches have been supporting racism and wars and Nazi-Style leaders for two thousand years. So this is not at all unusual. The U.S. has been killing on a grand style for seventy years (and many before that. The churches have tacitly and more than tacitly accepted this evil. Christian George Bush Jr. was a duplicate of Hitler. In many respects, so was Obama. So is Clinton.
Indeed, the whole history of western imperialism was essentially the same as Hitler's outrages. We see evil when others do it, but not when we do it.
The U.S. is possibly the worst affected of all the nations by it mythologies and phantasies. They actually believe they are God's chosen people. They actually believe they have Christian values.
And Canada has happily played on with the mass murder and looting.
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...Absolutely, graeme, but do you honestly see a real choice? The mouse does live right next door to the elephant, for sure. I think we try to assert ourselves, but it's diplomatically very difficult, from an economic POV, if nothing else.
 
We are the mice only if we make ourselves the mice.
And, yes, it might well be economically difficult. But The Bible does not say thou shalt not kill - unless it's necessary to make lots of money.
When I see a Christian university acting like that, I wonder what the hell their professors have taught them.
The U.S. has paraded itself God's chosen land. Hitler did that, too. So did Britain - and France and Spain and Portugal and Italy. After two thousand years, that's the kind of thinking that confronts us. We are murdering, starving, destroying societies all over the world. And our excuse, like Hitler's, is that God wants us to do it because He especially loves us.
And today's column on the Faith Page of my newspaper was a tweety bird piece of drivel about how we must love our mothers.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
Christian churches have been supporting racism and wars and Nazi-Style leaders for two thousand years. So this is not at all unusual. The U.S. has been killing on a grand style for seventy years (and many before that. The churches have tacitly and more than tacitly accepted this evil. Christian George Bush Jr. was a duplicate of Hitler. In many respects, so was Obama. So is Clinton.
Indeed, the whole history of western imperialism was essentially the same as Hitler's outrages. We see evil when others do it, but not when we do it.
The U.S. is possibly the worst affected of all the nations by it mythologies and phantasies. They actually believe they are God's chosen people. They actually believe they have Christian values.
And Canada has happily played on with the mass murder and looting.
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No One is beta at despising and dissociating the abnormal ... thus we're outliers ... Black swans ... all inna flap!
 
Graeme Decarie said:
p.s. I don't say the above to annoy anybody. It's simply the obvious truth.
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Do some see right though it and absorb nothing?

Then there is that gnawing thingy ... as if we didn't know ... de Musing thing is they slipped off with it ... def ine chi'z ... data's Ur ... information we can't grasp ...
 
I think this is potentially more concerning:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2017/may/17/donald-trump-russia-james-comey-flynn-live

At least as far as the current Administration is concerned. Republicans were trying to keep this from going to a special prosecutor as well.

Wonder how long Rosenstein keeps his job after verbally correcting the initial reports that he recommended Comey get sacked and he has now appointed a special prosecutor to head up the Russia-Trump investigations that Trump fired Comey for not stopping.
 
The Reddit comment that resonated with me was, "It's like I'm binge watching reality."

There is at least one new scandal every day now. Two today, maybe three. The only good news for Donald Trump is that the population can't keep up with all the scandals. People are literally scandal-fatigued.

I tell my daughter that this sort of political disaster is so unique and unreal, that hopefully she never sees something like this again in her lifetime. she is just becoming aware of the news, and I don't want her thinking this is normal. This is surreal.

The only problem is that I don't see much on Pence besides the fact he did a shitty job vetting Flynn. This conversation might undo Ryan, but the next in line for the presidency is Pence, and he's a theocrat.
 
Rosenstein appointing a special prosecutor just a few days after Trump shamelessly used him to get an excuse to fire Comey might well be a very good and appropriate decision but it also strikes me as something of an "FU" from Rosenstein to Trump.
 
Perhaps, but it's warranted.

It will be interesting to see what the rats do while the ship is sinking. If the ship does indeed sink. Who will jump, and when?

It's fascinating political theater. I've been refreshing r/politics in the background all day.
 
This is so strange to me...Bill Clinton was impeached for lying under oath about an affair. An affair. I remember the whole controversy about his character as president being discussed and Republicans saying he can't be trusted if he could do such a thing. It wasn't Bill Clinton's shining moment as a loyal spouse - nothing to do with him being president - and I am sure it was a terrible time for Hillary...but it seems like such a drop in the bucket personal screw up, compared to today. Donald Trump is embroiled in corruption allegations that are so much worse than that, than even Nixon - never mind Hillary's emails, they were a red herring - and pundits analysis is that it's almost going to take a miracle to impeach him and remove him from office. Teflon Don. Unbelievable. It continues to be jaw dropping...from the day he announced he was running for president onwards...I'm still not over the fact that he was even elected - that more than a few people even voted for him...
 
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Kimmio said:
This is so strange to me...Bill Clinton was impeached for lying under oath about an affair. An affair. I remember the whole controversy about his character as president being discussed and Republicans saying he can't be trusted if he could do such a thing. It wasn't Bill Clinton's shining moment as a loyal spouse - nothing to do with him being president - and I am sure it was a terrible time for Hillary...but it seems like such a drop in the bucket personal screw up, compared to today. Donald Trump is embroiled in corruption allegations that are so much worse than that, than even Nixon - never mind Hillary's emails, they were a red herring - and pundits analysis is that it's almost going to take a miracle to impeach him and remove him from office. Teflon Don. Unbelievable. It continues to be jaw dropping...from the day he announced he was running for president onwards...I'm still not over the fact that he was even elected - that more than a few people even voted for him...
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Impeachment is never about legal issues or guilt or innocence. Legal factors are an excuse for impeachment, not the reason. Impeachment by its very nature is a political act. Bill Clinton was impeached because the Republicans controlled Congress and there were enough questions raised about Lewinsky and Whitewater and some of the other accusations (whether true or not) Bill faced around rape, etc. that the Republicans had legal cover. What makes impeachment difficult in the current circumstances is that the Republicans control both the House and the Senate. Finding the votes to impeach would be very, very difficult. They might find enough rogue Republicans in the House (especially if there are Republican members who find their chances of re-election being hurt by Trump) to pass an impeachment resolution eventually, but getting 67 votes in the Senate (because you need two-thirds to remove an impeached president from office) will be a very tall order. For Clinton, there were two articles of impeachment passed by the House. The votes in the Senate were 55-45 against one of the articles and a 50-50 tie on the other. Not even close to 67 votes.
 
chansen said:
The Reddit comment that resonated with me was, "It's like I'm binge watching reality."

There is at least one new scandal every day now. Two today, maybe three. The only good news for Donald Trump is that the population can't keep up with all the scandals. People are literally scandal-fatigued.

I tell my daughter that this sort of political disaster is so unique and unreal, that hopefully she never sees something like this again in her lifetime. she is just becoming aware of the news, and I don't want her thinking this is normal. This is surreal.

The only problem is that I don't see much on Pence besides the fact he did a shitty job vetting Flynn. This conversation might undo Ryan, but the next in line for the presidency is Pence, and he's a theocrat.
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Sur ... does this oppose sous ... the un-lying mother in this case? Since the mistruths weren't mythical enough to be sucked up ...

Could cause Cystitis ... or lumps in the plan ... that was to be plain and flat out ... like Good and Evil in the Savannah story ...
 
Kimmio said:
This is so strange to me...Bill Clinton was impeached for lying under oath about an affair. An affair. I remember the whole controversy about his character as president being discussed and Republicans saying he can't be trusted if he could do such a thing. It wasn't Bill Clinton's shining moment as a loyal spouse - nothing to do with him being president - and I am sure it was a terrible time for Hillary...but it seems like such a drop in the bucket personal screw up, compared to today. Donald Trump is embroiled in corruption allegations that are so much worse than that, than even Nixon - never mind Hillary's emails, they were a red herring - and pundits analysis is that it's almost going to take a miracle to impeach him and remove him from office. Teflon Don. Unbelievable. It continues to be jaw dropping...from the day he announced he was running for president onwards...I'm still not over the fact that he was even elected - that more than a few people even voted for him...
Click to expand...

Is the Master and Commander mode often used to scroo' the people as a means of usefulness to a "great" few? Pragmatism at one time meant useful to the awl ... the mark of the carpenter ... builder of the knotty tree ... extending the concept of cathedral under the sun ... some mono scripts must have this as physiological seizure ...

Are there ways out of the loop holes ... scroo'win about the people clause for the sake of success ions?
 
And it seems Trump being charged with treason is out of the question too because cyber attacks are not considered acts of war.....and if there is not an official war against Russia, could Trump be charged with treason for giving out classified information?

If he is immune from treason and impeachment is unlikely, what's left to remove Trump from office?
 
Waterfall said:
If he is immune from treason and impeachment is unlikely, what's left to remove Trump from office?
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Trump is not immune to impeachment. Because of partisan politics he might have an easier time escaping any attempt to impeach. He is burning through any good will establishment Republicans had for him. His leash might be ridiculously long, it has an end point somewhere and at the rate he is going, that end will be found sooner rather than later.
 
revjohn said:

Trump is not immune to impeachment. Because of partisan politics he might have an easier time escaping any attempt to impeach. He is burning through any good will establishment Republicans had for him. His leash might be ridiculously long, it has an end point somewhere and at the rate he is going, that end will be found sooner rather than later.
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Could he still be impeached if he stepped down from the presidency or is this even allowed?
 
Waterfall said:
And it seems Trump being charged with treason is out of the question too because cyber attacks are not considered acts of war.....and if there is not an official war against Russia, could Trump be charged with treason for giving out classified information?

If he is immune from treason and impeachment is unlikely, what's left to remove Trump from office?
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Treason does not require that an act of war take place.

Having said that, it's generally accepted that indicting a sitting president on criminal charges and trying him in court is unconstitutional. That's why the Constitution provides for impeachment - which is the political version of an indictment - and a trial in the Senate. So, at least while he's president, Trump can't be "charged" (criminally) with anything. He would have to be impeached. Article 2, Section 4 of the US Constitution says that "The President ... shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors." My understanding is that it's a bit of an open question whether, once impeached and removed from office, criminal charges could then be brought against the (now) former president for whatever crimes were committed.

As I said above, impeachment is a political process. It's for the House and Senate to impeach and convict (or not.) Politicians will be looking to respond to their constituents and save their prospects of re-election. Nixon resigned because impeachment and conviction became inevitable. It's reported that a few days before he resigned, a group of Republican members of Congress told him that impeachment in the House was a certainty and that he had no more than 15 votes for acquittal in the Senate. (He would have needed 34.) So he resigned rather than going through a process that he couldn't win. Republicans turned on Nixon because Nixon was dragging them down. He hadn't lost Congress - he had lost his political base of support, and because of that Congress (even the Republicans) turned on him. That hasn't happened with Trump. His core seems to be absolutely rock solid. His core is convinced that this is all just a giant conspiracy by Clinton supporters, the establishment, and even the Republican elite to get rid of him. His core isn't the traditional Republican core, but Republicans in Congress are going to need that core to get re-elected. As long as Trump's core vote holds firm, it's hard to see him being impeached and removed.

As for what would happen after Trump leaves office, Richard Nixon was never impeached, but he was pardoned by Gerald Ford, which suggested that Ford at least believed that former presidents could be charged with crimes they committed while in office. So, perhaps, after Trump leaves office in 2021 or 2025 (if he serves a full 4 or 8 years) a criminal indictment might be possible. But if he were to be impeached and removed from office then would indictment and trial in a court after being removed on impeachment and by trial in the Senate be considered a form of double jeopardy, I wonder? Is it even allowed? Or can a president's actions only be judged by the Congress - so that the civil courts aren't considered able to do so even after that president has left office? It's never happened, so we have no way of knowing.
 
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