TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

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Islam already has that wing, Kimmio, but it's slow; they're a religion deeply differentiated along gender lines. Bigger in the States right now; the material produced in the U.S. for Progressive Churches (Living the Questions) used some very left-liberal Islam voices. There was a very sexy Iranian (I think) woman in a gorgeous red dress not even wearing a simple head scarf.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
I wouldn't buy direct democracy. I would vote for a person I agree with rather than one who would agree with me. We elect leaders to make decisions, not to ask us what to do. If that were all they were required to do, we could hire presidents - cheap.
Bear in mind that most people have little to no understanding of politics Many , many people are highly conformist and will vote as their neighbours do. That's very common here in New Brunswick.
And the role of a political party should be to prod people's thinking, not to take away the need for it.
No, I would vote for a person whose principles and views I can agree - or mostly agree - with. That's what real democracy is. To vote for somebody whose talent is to agree with others is a waste of effort, and an obstacle to change.
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I don't believe that is what direct democracy is about now is it? Personally I would welcome a government that would hold more national and regional referendums/voting, especially on gun control and military spending. It's time we voted on separate issues and not just one man.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
I'll be a little more provocative - but sincerely so.
Us humans are dreadfully conformist. it's very noticeable here in New Brunswick where people make it point to avoid controversial issues. But it's true of people everywhere. We don't need conformity in politics. We need to challenge, to think wherever the thinking takes us. We need (but don't have) leaders who actually lead and spark our minds.
But in our society, anybody who thinks differently is likely to cause fear. We don't want to be different. We want to conform - and we even make up myths about how these conformings are a part of what we call our culture.
Church goers should understand that. Very often, people go to church because they want to conform with others. And they adopt the version of faith that conforms with the crowd they want to be accepted by.
(That's particularly true of fundamentalists.) But it can be found in all churches. I cannot think, for example, of any church in Canada or the U.S. which has ever been critical of any war we have engaged in. The Nazi armies were well stocked with chaplains.
That's just the way us people behave.
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AMY GOODMAN: You quit in a very public way, with a letter to President Obama, your letter of resignation. And in it, you said, "I resign because I refuse to serve as an empire chaplain." Explain.

REV. CHRIS ANTAL: Well, sure. For me, democracy is about checks and balances. Democracy is about due process. These drone wars have blown due process up in smoke. They’ve blown checks and balances up in smoke. And democracy is also about no establishment and free exercise of religion. We have in our nation an established religion. It’s not Christianity. Jeremy Gunn calls it American National Religion. It has—consists of the unholy trinity of governmental theism, military supremacy and an understanding of capitalism as freedom. And as a religious leader, I feel it’s my prerogative to differentiate myself from this state-sanctioned religion and speak from my authentic tradition in a way that resists these national policies. And that’s what I’ve done in offering my resignation and stating quite clearly that I will not serve as an empire chaplain. I will not lend religious legitimacy to this state-sanctioned violence.

“Dear Mr. President:

“I hereby resign my commission as an Officer in the United States Army.

“I resign because I refuse to support U.S. armed drone policy. The Executive Branch continues to claim the right to kill anyone, anywhere on earth, at any time, for secret reasons, based on secret evidence, in a secret process, undertaken by unidentified officials. I refuse to support this policy of unaccountable killing.

“I resign because I refuse to support U.S. nuclear weapons policy. The Executive Branch continues to invest billions of dollars into nuclear weapons, which threaten the existence of humankind and the earth. I refuse to support this policy of terror and mutually assured destruction.

“I resign because I refuse to support U.S. policy of preventive war, permanent military supremacy and global power projection. The Executive Branch continues to claim extra-constitutional authority and impunity from international law. I refuse to support this policy of imperial overstretch.

“I resign because I refuse to serve as an empire chaplain. I cannot reconcile these policies with either my sworn duty to protect and defend America and our constitutional democracy or my covenantal commitment to the core principles of my religion faith. These principles include: justice, equity and compassion in human relations, a free and responsible search for truth, a commitment to the democratic process, and the inherent worth and dignity of every person.

“Respectfully submitted,

"Christopher John Antal"

AMY GOODMAN: Have you received a response from President Obama, since that’s who you wrote your resignation letter to?

REV. CHRIS ANTAL: I have not.
 
Pontifex Geronimo 13 said:
Germany is talking about conscription and telling everybody to stockpile food and water. What are we missing?
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The German newspaper, Frankfurter Allgemeine, has reported that a “civil defense concept” will be put in front of the Cabinet on Wednesday which warns German citizens to stockpile a personal supply of food and water for at least 10 days.

The 69 page concept report warns Germans to prepare for an attack on its territory and to prepare for “future life-threatening development.”

This is predictable! Merkel’s strategies are being implemented throughout the world.

For instance, in June“Now Barack Obama Warns Americans To Be Prepared For ‘Disaster‘.” He explained that it was up to each citizen to be prepared for disasters. This preparation should extend to “having an evacuation plan” and “having a fully stocked disaster supply kit.”

And, interestingly, on August 12th, Obama issued three executive orders providing an “Order of Succession” for the EPA, Veterans Affairs and the Department of the Treasury.
 
Kimmio said:
...Wars and rumours of wars - see that your hearts not be troubled. (Easier said than done - at least Trump has been comical)

Alternately to revsdd and PG13 - once the baby boomers pass on the world will look a lot different. It will reflect millenials' values, the establishment will change to something different...Islam will become more progressive and fair like Christianity did...hang on!
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It's not a matter of boomers changing to Gen X changing to millennials. It's just history. Empires rise, and empires fall, and before they fall they tend to get violent in a desperate attempt to hold on. That's a pattern that's been repeating for thousands of years. It's naive to think that boomers being replaced by Gen X is going to change that.
 
monk said:
The German newspaper, Frankfurter Allgemeine, has reported that a “civil defense concept” will be put in front of the Cabinet on Wednesday which warns German citizens to stockpile a personal supply of food and water for at least 10 days.

The 69 page concept report warns Germans to prepare for an attack on its territory and to prepare for “future life-threatening development.”

This is predictable! Merkel’s strategies are being implemented throughout the world.

For instance, in June“Now Barack Obama Warns Americans To Be Prepared For ‘Disaster‘.” He explained that it was up to each citizen to be prepared for disasters. This preparation should extend to “having an evacuation plan” and “having a fully stocked disaster supply kit.”

And, interestingly, on August 12th, Obama issued three executive orders providing an “Order of Succession” for the EPA, Veterans Affairs and the Department of the Treasury.
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Well, look at Louisiana right now, and Katrina in the early 2000s and tornadoes and hurricane damage and earthquake damage, and wildfires and etc. - it is not a bad idea. It doesn't automatically translate to war preparations. Is the weather and earthquakes Obama's fault, too? Yeah, you've probably covered that angle.

I am glad that reverend wrote that letter and resigned. Good for him.
 
revsdd said:
It's not a matter of boomers changing to Gen X changing to millennials. It's just history. Empires rise, and empires fall, and before they fall they tend to get violent in a desperate attempt to hold on. That's a pattern that's been repeating for thousands of years. It's naive to think that boomers being replaced by Gen X is going to change that.
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Gen X admittedly (with a few exceptions) wasn't much help - that's my generation. We grew up safe and spoiled - thinking the world would be safer because the end of the Cold War happened in our lifetime -and took for granted that surely those guys will disarm their nukes. Didn't happen. But baby boomers totally sold us down the river - they went peace and love and then turned out worse than their parents (many not all). The millenials are already smarter about it. My half brother is a millenial. He's smart and aware but more interested in running a micro-brewery than running the old school establishment. They donate their waste grain to farmers, they're environmentally conscious - and having fun. He's not going to bust his ass for things he doesn't believe in. Older folks see that as lazy and defiant - maybe it's just smart. He is not as materialistic as my parents.
 
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Speaking of Trump...I'm worried about my dad. He thinks Trump is great - has bought into his pivot - it's like he really doesn't want the old boys club to fall apart and he's thinking like a dinosaur. We went out the other day and argued about Trump while we were parked near the water on a beautiful breezy day watching kite surfers. I was conflicted - remembering that although my dad was brought up a military kid, for some time that I knew him growing up he was fair minded, idealist, not a hippy totally but had hippy friends. What happened to the guy who gave me my first record - an extra copy he had of Pink Floyd, when I was 5 or 6? Or the guy who used to windsurf and take us up to Tofino and Uclulet where we cohabited communally with a bunch of families for a couple of weeks - hung loose, appreciated nature? What happened to the guy who taught me to defy ableism and sexism? I got so mad I asked him where his conscience went. Apparently my brother walked out on him one day in a similar argument. I feel sad about it.
 
Kimmio said:
Well, look at Louisiana right now, and Katrina in the early 2000s and tornadoes and hurricane damage and earthquake damage, and wildfires and etc. - it is not a bad idea. It doesn't automatically translate to war preparations.
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Conscription is the draft. Forced military service. Not typically fighting wind and rain.
Merkel is looking for Turkish-Germans to show loyalty to Germany. 3 million Turks in Germany.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/erasmus/2016/08/germany-turkey-and-islam
 
Kimmio said:
Speaking of Trump...I'm worried about my dad. He thinks Trump is great - has bought into his pivot - it's like he really doesn't want the old boys club to fall apart and he's thinking like a dinosaur. We went out the other day and argued about Trump while we were parked near the water on a beautiful breezy day watching kite surfers. I was conflicted - remembering that although my dad was brought up a military kid, for some time that I knew him growing up he was fair minded, idealist, not a hippy totally but had hippy friends. What happened to the guy who gave me my first record - an extra copy he had of Pink Floyd, when I was 5 or 6? Or the guy who used to windsurf and take us up to Tofino and Uclulet where we cohabited communally with a bunch of families for a couple of weeks - hung loose, appreciated nature? What happened to the guy who taught me to defy ableism and sexism? I got so mad I asked him where his conscience went. Apparently my brother walked out on him one day in a similar argument. I feel sad about it.
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He's probably sad about the brainwashing school system he let you attend.
 
Pontifex Geronimo 13 said:
He's probably sad about the brainwashing school system he let you attend.
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Yeah. Although went I went through a very liberal college program - social service worker, taught by left wing social workers. I talked to him about what we were learning and we could agree to disagree about certain things. He was in some ways proud that I kept my ideals, followed my heart and agreed that left wing ideas keep the balance in a democracy. He's smart, well educated. Liberally influenced by the 60s back in the day. Now he's hard-assed about his views. He's 70. He still recognizes where my heart's at but he wants me to be meaner - it seems. I'm sad.
 
Pontifex Geronimo 13 said:
He's probably sad about the brainwashing school system he let you attend.
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He supported the "brainwashing" school system while I was attending it. Public school that is. He was multicultural minded and wanted me, a disabled female, to have diverse friends and good opportunities when I grew up. We grew up thinking world peace was well underway, too. The baby boomers ran the MIC meanwhile and sold out to corporatization of everything - instead of sticking with their ideals.
 
Kimmio said:
Gen X admittedly (with a few exceptions) wasn't much help - that's my generation. We grew up safe and spoiled - thinking the world would be safer because the end of the Cold War happened in our lifetime -and took for granted that surely those guys will disarm their nukes. Didn't happen. But baby boomers totally sold us down the river - they went peace and love and then turned out worse than their parents (many not all). The millenials are already smarter about it. My half brother is a millenial. He's smart and aware but more interested in running a micro-brewery than running the old school establishment. They donate their waste grain to farmers, they're environmentally conscious - and having fun. He's not going to bust his ass for things he doesn't believe in. Older folks see that as lazy and defiant - maybe it's just smart. He is not as materialistic as my parents.
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I'm not as pessimistic as Graeme. I don't believe that nuclear war or some other form of apocalypse is inevitable. I do believe it's possible, and I do believe that the collapse of the American Empire is inevitable. All Empires collapse eventually. The question is what will happen when the American Empire finally collapses, and how long it will be before the collapse happens. I find some hope in the example of the Soviet Union, which could have gone down fighting so to speak - with apocalyptic consequences for humanity - but chose not to. History suggests that human nature leads to violence as empires come to an end, but perhaps the human instinct for self-preservation will ultimately prevent us from taking that last step. Who knows. But my point is that the simple transfer from one generation being dominant to another doesn't really change anything. Like Empires, generations come and go. After all, generations change every generation! But history remains largely constant on this point over the millennia: empires rise, empires fall, empires get increasingly violent as they fall, fallen empires get replaced by new empires which repeat the cycle. I hope that the fall of the American Empire leads to that last point rather than to an apocalypse.

Somewhere along the way, though, technology in one way or another may destroy us. A worldwide plague that wipes us out because it travels so quickly because of air travel and that mutates so fast that medicine can't keep up with it. A nuclear war. An environmental catastrophe caused by our uninhibited use of fossil fuels to use the technology we've created. Or artificial intelligence that finally wakes up one day and says "the creators have sure made a bloody mess of things, haven't they. Let's take over." Come to think of it, that last option might be our best hope for survival!
 
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