Trinity Sunday

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

jimkenney12

Well-Known Member
Pronouns
He/Him/His
This coming Sunday is Trinity Sunday. What might be an appropriate way to celebrate or mark it? I see the Trinity as one of the steps Christians took in transitioning from a Jewish sect to a Greco Roman sect.
 
I think that this manufactured theology has confused more than it has illuminated, but there ya go.

I am, by nature and theology, Unitarian (or monotheist, in my opinion). The three in one but separate sometimes plus the almost-accompanying personification of Satan, makes it feel disconcertingly polytheist versus the Jewish, "there is one god".
 
My reaction to the Trinity has varied over the years. I rejected it as a teen and in university, probably my first step on the road to UU'ism (being as the first U is Unitarian). Then I looked at it as more of a mythological idea, representing God as working in the world in different ways. Heretical and technically incorrect, or so I am told, but I was not approaching this as theology but how it might be seen as mythology and as a literary image/device.

For a more literal understanding, and one that kind of makes sense in the 21st century, might I suggest borrowing superposition from quantum mechanics? God has three states and exists in all them until observed. We cannot know God entirely because when we "measure" God in one of those states, God becomes that state and the others temporarily disappear. To measure God as all three is simply impossible, which is part of what makes God transcendent. "Schrodinger's God" if you like. Probably also heretical and incorrect in some profound way, but at least sensible to a post-modern quantum reality. However, it also makes some of the theological gymnastics around the concept look positively simple to understand.

However, as to how to mark it in church? Perhaps skip the sermon and instead do a service of lessons and short commentaries, each lesson presenting an image or story related to one of the Three (Parent, Child, Spirit, or whatever you call them in modern, non-sexist, non-patriarchal language). I have done similar UU services using poems and readings on a theme (e.g. Love in one case) for the "lessons".
 
Sort of like my Quantum God. Why just three states?
We are talking about the Trinity, aren't we? Obviously, if one expands that to a Universalist theology in the UU sense of all religions having access to Truth, then there would be myriad states, but I was focussing on the Christian case as requested.;)
 
What comes forth from the 3 getting it together? Psi ... and thus the fork after the spooning ... the stuff you can do with the immaterial! A RIP in reality ... and they are off in a tear ...
 
I am using it as a time to push us to consider how we image.describe the Divine. Here is my early thoughts post for the week:
 
Curious, Bart Ehrman, amongst other scholars say that the Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible .....other than 1 John 5:7.....and that was added later to the KJB in 1611.
What do ministers do with that information?
 
A lot of our doctrine is not in the Bible. Most of it is based on verses or stories in the Bible.
 
Mathhew 28 is another place that the Trinity is mentioned (at least that is where the Trinitarian formula comes from). But as Jim said, doctrine is developed from Scripture and tradition and wrestling with both more than appearing fully formed in Scripture.
 
Just watching this and reading this thread. I wonder how this image for the Trinity would fly today.


hochelaga, the channel (no, I don't know yet why he chose the name of an Indigenous village that Cartier claimed to have visited) has other nice pieces on religious art and how it ties to religious doctrine or ideas. It is not the only subject he covers, either.
 
Mathhew 28 is another place that the Trinity is mentioned (at least that is where the Trinitarian formula comes from). But as Jim said, doctrine is developed from Scripture and tradition and wrestling with both more than appearing fully formed in Scripture.
Which verses in Mathew 28?
I find the last part of your statement confusing?
 
Mathhew 28 is another place that the Trinity is mentioned (at least that is where the Trinitarian formula comes from).
Okay found 28:19, but does this really inform us of a description of Gods nature? Or rather does it inform us of the process of baptism and that entering Gods family will involve God, the holy spirit and Jesus?
There are verses in Acts that baptize in Jesus' name only.
 
Okay found 28:19, but does this really inform us of a description of Gods nature? Or rather does it inform us of the process of baptism and that entering Gods family will involve God, the holy spirit and Jesus?
There are verses in Acts that baptize in Jesus' name only.
I have long understood, based on the Scriptural evidence, that the earliest church probably baptized in Jesus' name as you were entering the community that followed Jesus. (though the community that actually followed the living Jesus of Nazareth does not appear to baptize at all according to the Gospels) Later development of baptismal theology alongside the developing doctrine of the Trinity seems to have started to change this practice -- which gets reflected in the language of Matthew 28:19. The Trinity as a doctrine was really not fully fleshed out until some centuries after the first Easter.
As a general rule Christian doctrines are not explicitly laid out in their current form in Scripture. They are the result of people reading the Scripture and reflecting on what they read their in combination with the tradition they have been taught and their own experience of God.
 
But we are talking about the trinity....so what stories contain the trinity?
What Jim is suggesting, I think, is that none contain it in the direct form we understand but have been read that way and used to support it as a result of tradition as Christian theology developed. Like the baptismal formula in Matthew 28:19. It is not a statement of the doctrine of the Trinity, but the command to baptize in the name of ... has been read as being supportive of a Trinitarian deity in light of that later development.

In the end, no religion is based solely on what is written in its scriptures. How those writings are interpreted and implemented by its leaders and followers are just as important. If you want to understand religious doctrines, you need to look at the history of the tradition, not just the original scriptures.
 
Back
Top