The Rev. Vosper Again

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I still find it amusing that someone faces termination for the misdeed of coming to a reasonable conclusion that her employer can't refute.

But maybe that's just one more concession that religion should get.
 
chansen said:
I still find it amusing that someone faces termination for the misdeed of coming to a reasonable conclusion that her employer can't refute.

But maybe that's just one more concession that religion should get.
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So say you. :whistle:
 
paradox3 said:
No? The dispute resolution process is never required? It is always voluntary?
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The informal process is often preferred as a starting point, but it is always possible to skip straight to formal processes if deemed wisest
 
Our church recently took part in 'The Identity Mission and Needs Analysis (IMNA)' sponsored by the Edge. Some of the questions may give the researchers some answers as to which way the United Church is headed.
http://www.edge-ucc.ca/imna/

from the survey~ "Please answer on a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 means not at all important, and 10 means very important. Please move your cursor over the scale and click your answer.
The importance of the people in your congregation understanding and accepting a set of beliefs about God and Jesus
An understanding that faith comes in many forms, and is not always related to traditional ideas or practices
How important do you feel it is for the United Church to continue to express its understanding of God as Trinity?
How important is it to you, for continued involvement in your congregation, that Jesus is named in worship?
There are many paths to God - Christianity is one path among many
It is time for organized and institutional versions of Christianity to fade away and something new to emerge
The language and symbols of Christianity may be barriers that prevent many people from being open to the actual message of the Gospel
Connection to the denomination of The United Church of Canada is important to the work of your faith community
There is nothing wrong with atheists belonging and contributing to the life and work of United Church faith communities
faith is not about believing a set of statements; it is really a matter of the heart
It doesn't really matter whether Jesus was or was not divine; what matters is the basic content of his message
The resurrection of Christ is about the reality of God's love and how lives can be transformed for the better through love
 
GordW said:
The informal process is often preferred as a starting point, but it is always possible to skip straight to formal processes if deemed wisest
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Would be very interested in hearing more about the dispute resolution process. I understand it is relatively new in our denomination but I don't know how widely it has been used. We can start a new thread if you like. I think it is relevant to this discussion, however, because I have heard one or two people say it should have been used in the Vosper situation.
 
;);););););)
Inukshuk said:
Our church recently took part in 'The Identity Mission and Needs Analysis (IMNA)' sponsored by the Edge. Some of the questions may give the researchers some answers as to which way the United Church is headed.
http://www.edge-ucc.ca/imna/

from the survey~ "Please answer on a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 means not at all important, and 10 means very important. Please move your cursor over the scale and click your answer.
The importance of the people in your congregation understanding and accepting a set of beliefs about God and Jesus
An understanding that faith comes in many forms, and is not always related to traditional ideas or practices
How important do you feel it is for the United Church to continue to express its understanding of God as Trinity?
How important is it to you, for continued involvement in your congregation, that Jesus is named in worship?
There are many paths to God - Christianity is one path among many
It is time for organized and institutional versions of Christianity to fade away and something new to emerge
The language and symbols of Christianity may be barriers that prevent many people from being open to the actual message of the Gospel
Connection to the denomination of The United Church of Canada is important to the work of your faith community
There is nothing wrong with atheists belonging and contributing to the life and work of United Church faith communities
faith is not about believing a set of statements; it is really a matter of the heart
It doesn't really matter whether Jesus was or was not divine; what matters is the basic content of his message
The resurrection of Christ is about the reality of God's love and how lives can be transformed for the better through love
Click to expand...
Oops, how did Gretta sneak into the Edge organization for a UCC funded subversive movement? And all of this under the umbrella of embracing the spirit. Asking the wrong questions might get you the wrong answers....
Maybe should have stuck to chasing the spirit instead of embracing it.;)
 
chansen said:
What is there to disagree with?
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The part about her employer. The church is certainly within its rights to refute her conclusion. And has done so.

I have never said that Rev Vosper reached an unreasonable conclusion. But I and others have questioned the place of this worldview in a Christian denomination.
 
And I'm saying that perhaps they are right to be able to terminate her for coming to that conclusion. Just like Christian organizations are allowed to terminate people in same sex relationships. Religious groups can get exemptions from employment laws, and this is one more example of where they are exempt.

That religious groups need protection from fairness employment laws is just one more strike against religion, to me.
 
chansen said:
And I'm saying that perhaps they are right to be able to terminate her for coming to that conclusion. Just like Christian organizations are allowed to terminate people in same sex relationships. Religious groups can get exemptions from employment laws, and this is one more example of where they are exempt.

That religious groups need protection from fairness employment laws is just one more strike against religion, to me.
Click to expand...

Should a marketing company keep an employee who doesn't believe in sales? Should a tourist board keep someone employed wgo doesn't believe in tourism? Should a daycare keep someone employed who doesn't believe in caring for children? Should a..
 
chansen said:
And I'm saying that perhaps they are right to be able to terminate her for coming to that conclusion. Just like Christian organizations are allowed to terminate people in same sex relationships. Religious groups can get exemptions from employment laws, and this is one more example of where they are exempt.

That religious groups need protection from fairness employment laws is just one more strike against religion, to me.
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Largely agree with you when it comes to religious organizations being able to override human rights legislation.

Perhaps this could be the topic for a new thread. It is quite a different issue than the Vosper controversy.
 
If you market service as a product offered ... in efficiency does the marketplace drift towards efficiency and thus service decreases efficiency? Sounds like some pathetic argument to stop serving mankind ... and thus sharing fails ... with the empire collapsing empirically!

Fall of pyramid schemes into the pits of "v" once known as de Nous ... few grasp it ... just Passover of thoughts ... so it goes ...
 
Heard the last 5 minutes. Caught a bit with callers Paul and Matt, both United Church ministers, Matt in support of Rev. Vosper.
 
It was a pretty good hour. I don't think I heard anything I didn't know, or any opinions I didn't anticipate. Missed a bit while I was getting in the house, changing the radio, etc.
 
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