The I Am statements and a different process?

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Second reading of John 14:1-14. I am going to do the work of transcribing the Inclusive Bible for this reading, as it’s not in the public domain. In this passage, I almost find "Abba" as distracting as Father, but they try:

1 “Don’t let your hearts be troubled. You have faith in God; have faith in me as well. 2 In God’s house there are many dwelling places; otherwise, how could I have told you that I was going to prepare a place for you? 3 I am indeed going to prepare a place for you, and then I will come back to take you with me, that where I am you will be as well. 4 You know the way that leads to where I am going.” 5 Thomas replied, “But we don’t know where you are going; how can we know the way?” 6 Jesus told him, “I am the Way - I am Truth, and I am Life. No one comes to Abba God but through me. 7 If you really knew me, you would know Abba God also. From this point on, you know Abba God, and you have seen God.” 8 “Rabbi”, Philip said, “Show us Abba God and that will be enough for us.” 9 Jesus replied “Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and still you don’t know me? Whoever has seen me has seen Abba God, How can you say show us your Abba?10 Don’t you believe that I am in Abba God and God is in me? The words I speak are not spoken of myself; it is Abba God, living in me, who is accomplishing the words of God. 11 Believe me that I am in God, and God is in me, or else believe because of the works I do – and greater works besides. Why? Because I go to Abba God, 13 and whatever you ask in my name I will do, so that God may be glorified in me. 14 Anything you ask in my name I will do.

Read the passage, pray and meditate on it, then the second question is: “How is this passage speaking to you/us/humanity today?
 
Yet some ask and receive and the powers will detract from that with something they don't know very well and then claim: "you can't ask improper questions!"

This leads to one description of the meaning of mystic, prophet, seer, or 4 sight Eire ... I encountered a while back: thye 're folk that ask the ultimate question ... which is about fine ends ... even Moses observed that part as it took flight ...

Powers of ohm mission confused as dissociative in anti social societies as they downgrade? Like that train driven by ... (fill in the blank)! The race for splat ... resembles a yellow brick road ... where few understand the direction we've taken to strip everything ... republican Airs?

It is said Caesar shafted all his senators and most of their wives ... the story continues for cause? We have no reason ... buried in hubris? Ohm Eigh ...

Anon was a word for those that we blinded to what's coming due to abuse ... not waste of emotions to gain reasoning power ... then one is done gone ... out-of-here, or OBI as abstract!

To know word was defied and forebode by powers because of the potential satire on Jacked up ends ... thus the bode as a vessel of dispute! Is it really a free shell for hermits? Containment Theo Ra ... laughter is not to ring about ... gives the powers hebbae jebbaes ... hobbles!

Is democracy in extreme as bad as republic being immediately the will assume control and thus burning assumption or the assumption of Christ's twin ... debatable? Expect a rub ... may warm unseen parts ...
 
How does this passage speak to me today?

I wonder how different the world might look today if v.14 had been omitted.
 
BetteTheRed said:
How does this passage speak to me today?

I wonder how different the world might look today if v.14 had been omitted.
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What other things might be altered in an imperfect world? It is an issue the stoics would not accept as change or the metaphor thereof as ... learning process? "Oh we couldn't have that ... and there we're stuck ... like pigs in heaven ... very mucky view ... does give alternate understanding to being stoned (can't think).

Some professional authorities are pushy about such perspectives that they refer to as projection. They hate fork with foresight about what too much presence brings on ... like the substance surrounding trumped-up persona in a Town Hall scattering lies as the preferred way of making truth, virtue sacred and Gnostic! Can't see it? See how it works in the darker times and space doubt ...

The word of Gods are often skimmed, when some depth is required in an alien dimension ... the ultimate of mine ... extensive questions that the institutions dis like and would rather blacken and smear ... thus the lights depart from GEO Gaia ... the unconscious power sets in and in there a funny vision ...

Does the unconscious coming alive in deep rest cause puzzling enigmas? Thus such distant thoughts are declared alien in witch-hunts ... and disposed of as peculiar (amongst other words). Presently ineffable given the hatred on anything out of our present state of un extended sense ... firm minds will not go anywhere near that far! Divine stretch ... 3 parts to it! Thus those words about the first going and being caught up with later; modelled in Beyond the Sunset! Once sung by Hank Williams and Red Sovine. t may involve the essence of a soul slipping into a state ... imagine suck in th present Dais as if there were no others ... id'll pass as normally humans are not conscious of such things due to alien grip ... gravity? There's a story about that too as a metaphor leading to another understanding being gathered from where? That's out there yet-I ... well I was disposed and claimed waste by many that ignore such matter. Did you know that prodigal was once understood to be an element of waste ... like thought when overcome by Irrational Exuberance ... a parallel to Dan Goleman's issues ... emotional intelligence as EI counter to AI ... when humans were expected to do something ... and now thoughts are removed ... as evil know how ... more to ponder when down! Garbage is a tight organization ...
 
Problems enigmas left here by who? The ultimate question as unanswerable because there is a great potential there was no one here to observe that science! Some BS reaches beyond the senses of sight, hearing, etc. Driven out by phobias ... fears as such incarnate ... understood to appear in psyche as if it is all in mine)?

I'm said to be deficient because of such question and curios ... about things that appear mystic ... somewhat nebulous?
 
So, reading 2 seems to have come to its natural conclusion.

I will post the final scripture version and the accompanying question tonight or tomorrow.

Thanks to all participants for "trying" this with me. It works better in person.
 
I see a couple things that speak to me, on positive, one negative.

Jesus saying that he is in the Abba and vice versa, which suggests a rather different understanding of being "Son of God" than the trinitarian one. Seems more panentheist or even process to me.

On the negative side, you've got him basically using that to set himself up as a exclusive path to God, or at least speaking in a way that can be interpreted as him saying such.
 
Because our usual third translation, The Message, is not available on-line, and I don't own a copy of it, here's the "dynamic modern translation" of The Voice.

Read the passage carefully and meditatively. Meditate before you respond. The question for the third reading:

What is God asking you to do or be?

John 14:1-14 (The Voice)

14 Jesus: Don’t get lost in despair; believe in God, and keep on believing in Me. 2 My Father’s home is designed to accommodate all of you. If there were not room for everyone, I would have told you that. I am going to make arrangements for your arrival. 3 I will be there to greet you personally and welcome you home, where we will be together. 4 You know where I am going and how to get there.

Thomas: 5 Lord, we don’t know where You are going, so how can we know the path?

Jesus: 6 I am the path, the truth, and the energy of life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. 7 If you know Me, you know the Father. Rest assured now; you know Him and have seen Him.

Philip: 8 Lord, all I am asking is that You show us the Father.

Jesus (to Philip): 9 I have lived with you all this time, and you still don’t know who I am? If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father. How can you keep asking to see the Father? 10 Don’t you believe Me when I say I abide in the Father and the Father dwells in Me? I’m not making this up as I go along. The Father has given Me these truths that I have been speaking to you, and He empowers all My actions. 11 Accept these truths: I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me. If you have trouble believing based on My words, believe because of the things I have done. 12 I tell you the truth: whoever believes in Me will be able to do what I have done, but they will do even greater things, because I will return to be with the Father. 13 Whatever you ask for in My name, I will do it so that the Father will get glory from the Son. 14 Let Me say it again: if you ask for anything in My name, I will do it.

Again "What is God asking you to do or be?"
 
I have lived with you all this time, and you still don’t know who I am? Part of that ancient adage about know thyself and do little harm ... just observe ...

Alas so much inclined to static interference ... we can't hear the far side ... thus knowledge slips ... a hard thing to grip! Like that sacred viper ... could be a lie and yet a virtue that got up and goed ... giddy? Yup! Experience real life and that'll be the end of that ...

Blind faith will assist the avoids dance ... the pits of unconsciousness! Ground at the bottom line! May be portion of the re anal systems ... psssssst'd ... no Pi no go round ... spin is over ... that''s last word ... slight chance! The myth is something can't be stopped because well most can't see through it! If you read somethin end to end and there is no end ... an the spin end well? Perhaps just a few fringes ... beyond that ... dispatched info ... unwanted NU's! --- trumpeted ...
 
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paradox3 said:
You can find The Message on Bible Gateway.
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Indeed.

www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: John 14:1-14 - The Message

The Road - “Don’t let this rattle you. You trust God, don’t you? Trust me. There is plenty of room for you in my Father’s home. If that weren’t so, would I have told you that I’m on my way to get a room ready for you? And if I’m on my way to get your room ready, I’ll come back and get you so you...
www.biblegateway.com www.biblegateway.com
 
It's not surprising that this process is working differently here than it does in real life. It can be quite powerful to sit in quiet prayer or meditation with other people.

The final question is too personal for me to answer on an internet forum. Others may be fine with it.
 
So based on my own life, studies, and a recent song that has filled me up with a certain amount of joy, I would say "God" (what that is is a whole other thread) is calling me to be "My Paragon", that is, my own best self. But I am not sure how that relates to this passage. Jesus, I guess, provides a path to that? Perhaps is leading us down that road? But that does not really seem to be what is being said.

Though I suppose that "2 I tell you the truth: whoever believes in Me will be able to do what I have done, but they will do even greater things, because I will return to be with the Father. 13 Whatever you ask for in My name, I will do it so that the Father will get glory from the Son. " may be headed that way. Believing in Jesus and seeking his help as the "the path, the truth, and the energy of life" puts us on the path to doing great things, i.e. becoming our own best selves.

(Footnote: the song is in the Floor Jansen thread)
 
paradox3 said:
V.6 is problematic as well.

No one comes to the Father but by me???
This is about as exclusive as it gets.
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Unless you understand "the Father" as a particular intimate term for God and then allow others to come to God without the Father-child concept. Muslims reject the concept of Allah as "Father." Remember. John identifies Jesus as the Logos, which, used philosophically, refers to the rational Self-expression of God as opposed to God in His unknowability. So this might apply to non-Christian rational Self-expressions of God.
Bette: "I wonder how different the world might look today if v.14 had been omitted."

No different at all because verse 14 is authentic and is echoed in several of Jesus' statements about the power of faith in the Synoptic Gospels (e. g. MarK 11:23-24). 2 points are important to remember:
(1) Jesus establishes several conditions that govern the effectiveness of petitionary prayer.
(2) Jesus teaches that God often responds to the need behind the request rather than the literal request.
 
Mystic said:
Unless you understand "the Father" as a particular intimate term for God and then allow others to come to God without the Father-child concept.
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Sure. No problem. Others can come to God as they see fit.

But what did Jesus mean with this statement, do you think?
 
paradox3 said:
Sure. No problem. Others can come to God as they see fit.

But what did Jesus mean with this statement, do you think?
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I'll answer that from 2 perspectives:
(1) Jesus' Aramaic term for "Father" is "abba," an informal term often expressing intimate connection like "Dad."
Remember the intimate endearing message that the descending Spirit gave Jesus during His mystical baptismal vision: "You are my BELOVED Son with whom I am well pleased."

(2) It is a common misconception that Jesus was the first Palestinian Jew to address God as "Abba Father." In Jesus' da;y there were 2 similar miracle workers, Honi the Circle Drawer and Hanina ben Dosa. Hanina was a slightly older, Galilean prophetic contemporary of Jesus known for performing healings even at distance. Honi was a younger contemporary, who got his nickname as a result of his practice of going out in the wilderness, drawing a large circle, and telling God, whom he addressed as "Abba," that he would not leave this circle until God ended a long drought with a good rainfall. The intimacy of his "Abba" address was his way of arguing with God like a child on his Dad's knee. Jesus apparently took his Abba cue from Honi.
 
Mystic said:
I'll answer that from 2 perspectives:
(1) Jesus' Aramaic term for "Father" is "abba," an informal term often expressing intimate connection like "Dad."
Remember the intimate endearing message that the descending Spirit gave Jesus during His mystical baptismal vision: "You are my BELOVED Son with whom I am well pleased."

(2) It is a common misconception that Jesus was the first Palestinian Jew to address God as "Abba Father." In Jesus' da;y there were 2 similar miracle workers, Honi the Circle Drawer and Hanina ben Dosa. Hanina was a slightly older, Galilean prophetic contemporary of Jesus known for performing healings even at distance. Honi was a younger contemporary, who got his nickname as a result of his practice of going out in the wilderness, drawing a large circle, and telling God, whom he addressed as "Abba," that he would not leave this circle until God ended a long drought with a good rainfall. The intimacy of his "Abba" address was his way of arguing with God like a child on his Dad's knee. Jesus apparently took his Abba cue from Honi.
Click to expand...
This explains the term Abba and why Jesus used it for God.

It does not explain why Jesus said "No one comes to the Father except through me."

(My question in post # 57)
 
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