The Church Vs. The State Civil Disobedience

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Especially since the white evangelical churches are usually all about law and order until they break the law.

There are just laws and unjust laws. There are corrupt understandings of the bible and Christian responsibilities as much as there are corrupt laws and corrupt application of laws.

The reverse is also true.
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
Especially since the white evangelical churches are usually all about law and order until they break the law.

There are just laws and unjust laws. There are corrupt understandings of the bible and Christian responsibilities as much as there are corrupt laws and corrupt application of laws.

The reverse is also true.
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So we respect authentic manifestations of Church and State. These are light in a context of darkness. That darkness rooted in refusal of truth. This motivates me to affirm authenticity in both Church and State. All while resisting their tendency to the decline into chaos.
 
BetteTheRed said:
I don't think it helps if you dualize this.

If a person behaves badly because of personal history/mental illness, etc., you need the state to help make rules around how you contain the behaviour until the helping part, "church", "medicine", "healing" can kick in. It's not seamless, the boundaries are not clear.

And sometimes you resist the state, and sometimes it is right, and sometimes one is wrong, and discovers that later.
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It becomes a deux of a thing in French observation a pair that is hard to join without the magi of par is ... enigmatic!

Plain as Dais if you can see it through the great darkness ... however there are all these fuzzies ...
 
Powerful laws are very prone to corruption by the lar making apparatus ... a dark machine so to speak ... in order to do this the demos must be silent!

One side will say this is ridiculous ... without doubt raising the question of responsibility!
 
BetteTheRed said:
If a person behaves badly because of personal history/mental illness, etc., you need the state to help make rules around how you contain the behaviour until the helping part, "church", "medicine", "healing" can kick in. It's not seamless, the boundaries are not clear.
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Have enjoyed thinking about such things.

It seems, from my point of view, that your quotation sums up our current situation. As human beings we are called to respect the boundaries of nature. Violating those boundaries leads to decline. This to a critical point, in which nature turns to overcome our environmental hostility. Some among us notice the changing patterns of nature. We are preparing ourselves for the impending collapse of the structures we have imagined and enacted. This as the consequence of boundary violation by human being.

My position regarding the State is rooted in diverse persons. These include Socrates, Jesus, Buddha, and others. Each calling the State into question and advocating the search for true spiritual human being. Each suffering the consequence of their public profession. Each continuing to influence spiritual growth long after their death.

I hold the State accountable for our present human condition and the Church accountable for failing to keep the State within the bounds of God's creation. Instead, blessing the State as it sought the destruction of the natural and the rise of the artificial; what the Bible refers to as the work of our own hands.
 
“The form of law which I propose would be as follows: In a state which is desirous of being saved from the greatest of all plagues—not faction, but rather distraction—there should exist among the citizens neither extreme poverty nor, again, excessive wealth, for both are productive of great evil . . . Now the legislator should determine what is to be the limit of poverty or of wealth.”

WHO said that ?
 
Where the balance of nature is undone repercussion follows. We have defiled both water and air. We have honoured the rich and dishonoured the poor. We have served ourselves at the expense of others. We have come a long way down the road of ruin.
 
So, for the record, Rita's pandemic response is to reduce the disparity between the lowest and the highest incomes.

While I agree with her strategy, to deal with any number of social ills, from poverty to violence, to all sorts of ailments of humanity, as a pandemic response, mid-pandemic, it's not a pandemic response.

What IS your response to a global pandemic, Rita? Have us all get it, a s**t ton of us die unnecessarily, especially our elders?

If we all unmasked, ceased vaccines tomorrow, I'll model you a situation. Every hospital in the country becomes overwhelmed with COVID. There's not enough beds in the ICUs. All of the other departments are totally infected. Can't do any outpatient work due to risk.

Entire nursing homes are wiped out, along with most of their workers. The government needs to do some "mass grave work" to cope with the bodies. You're free to see your loved one as they lay dying, and then you can bring home the disease and wipe out a bunch more of your family. But you can't escape, because all flights/transport in and out of Canada have been cancelled, because we're now the pandemic epicentre.
 
BetteTheRed said:
But you can't escape, because all flights/transport in and out of Canada have been cancelled, because we're now the pandemic epicentre.
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Oh, no, all flights will be available, because there are no restrictions, so there is a steady stream of infected people in and out of Canada. Unless, of course, other countries don’t go by Rita’s principles, in which case you can’t land there.
 
The Nature of how it goes (things) was discussed in a book called The Swerve as it discussed how powers wend along the wrong way ... Machiavellian!

Always the dark side to amuse the mystery itself! Bi-Gods or demi roguery? (expect transliteration as one of the changes)

May seem out of here due to those right on the circles line ... taking flight! Breaking out of the egg ... cracked?
 

Pastor James Coates to be released from jail as Crown withdraws charges​

Mar 17th, 2021

EDMONTON: The Justice Centre today announced that Crown Prosecutors have agreed to withdraw all but one of the Public Health Act offences that Pastor James Coates has been charged with. The Justice Centre expects Pastor Coates will be released from jail in the coming days, without any conditions, pending his May 3-5 trial in Provincial Court.

The Justice Centre will defend Pastor Coates on one remaining charge of violating an Order of the Chief Medical Officer of Health by challenging the lawfulness of the public health order that he is charged with violating.

Grace Life is a church of nearly 400 congregants who have exercised their Charter rights and freedoms normally since July of 2020, including their freedoms of assembly, association, expression, religion and conscience.

Not one congregant has been lost to Covid, but, sadly, a congregant was lost to the Alberta Government lockdown in the first week of February when he died prematurely because he couldn’t get the cancer treatment he needed due to government lockdown restrictions.

The Pastor and his church have been taken to court by Alberta Health Services (AHS) and ordered to close by AHS
for holding regular church services and refusing to turn congregants away.

The Justice Centre sent a letter to Premier Jason Kenney on February 17, 2021, challenging him to assume responsibility for protecting the Charter rights and freedoms of Albertans, and to cease allowing an unelected health official, Dr. Deena Hinshaw, to violate rights and freedoms with health orders that are not reviewed by, or approved by, the elected Members of the Legislative Assembly.


Crown prosecutors have now agreed that Pastor Coates can be released without conditions and will withdraw all but one of the Public Health Act charges against him.

Prosecutors have also agreed to withdraw the criminal charge in connection with the condition imposed by RCMP on February 7, and instead have charged Pastor Coates $100 for breaching the condition, which Pastor Coates has agreed to pay.

The single charge remaining has not been withdrawn, as the Justice Centre and Pastor Coates want the matter heard at trial, to determine the constitutionality of the public health order that churches only hold worship services at 15% capacity, and to compel the government to produce scientific evidence that might support these violations of Charter freedoms.

“The condition that Pastor Coates effectively stop doing his job as a pastor by adhering to unscientific and unconstitutional public health restrictions should never have been imposed on him by the RCMP, or by the Court.

“We look forward appearing in court in May and demanding the government provide evidence that public health restrictions that violate the freedoms of religion, peaceful assembly, expression and association are scientific and are justifiable in a free and democratic country,” concludes Carpay.
 
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GeoFee said:
I hold the State accountable for our present human condition and the Church accountable for failing to keep the State within the bounds of God's creation. Instead, blessing the State as it sought the destruction of the natural and the rise of the artificial; what the Bible refers to as the work of our own hands
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I am in full agreement with the above statement and I would add that it is also the responsibility of citizens to unite to call both the State and the Church to account when they abuse their authorative powers.
 
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