The Christian Downfall ---The Error Of Balaam

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blackbelt1961 said:
Jesus is no simple nobody
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I agree, the Christ is the one of most evolved this world has ever seen. But does that mean He's going "carry us", lock, stock and barrel?

I believe He paved the way for us and we need to "pick up the cross" of self-renunciation just as He did. "Be perfect", was His words. In other words, show responsibility for your actions, your thoughts and your words. Be perfect in your body, your mind and your spirit in everything you do.
 
Neo said:
I agree, the Christ is the one of most evolved this world has ever seen.
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you cannot evolve into what you already are

But does that mean He's going "carry us", lock, stock and barrel?
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He already did


I believe He paved the way for us and we need to "pick up the cross" of self-renunciation just as He did. "Be perfect", was His words. In other words, show responsibility for your actions, your thoughts and your words. Be perfect in your body, your mind and your spirit in everything you do.
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I believe that you believe in a different Jesus , My Jesus comes down into our system and does what we cannot do for ourselves , salvation is not of your works, get over yourself , it's a gift
 
chansen said:
With the bible in front of your face, you walk into lamp posts and open man holes.
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Hi Chansen -- Every now and then you hit it right. Like your posted above. This is how I read what you posted. By The Word are we led into the Lite. We have the man with the holes to follow. Holes in His hands , in His feet, and in His side. As Tomas seen . So Blackbelt explained to you . You got it in a different way Ha Ha. At least you got it.
 
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blackbelt1961 said:
you cannot evolve into what you already are



He already did




I believe that you believe in a different Jesus , My Jesus comes down into our system and does what we cannot do for ourselves , salvation is not of your works, get over yourself , it's a gift
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What do you think it means to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling?" not criticising or anything, just asking.

I believe the meaning of "salvation" is not just about hereafter, but about here and now - working toward a better world that is not like this world. And to me that means we work at it ourselves, with the guidance and insight and capability we are given - God working though people. I am not sure the focus was supposed to be the hereafter. Otherwise, I just keep asking, "then why are we here in the first place?" we weren't put here to let the world go to hell in a hand basket. I don't believe that's God's will. Therefore, we've got to work at it. And the more hateful and greedy and corrupt the world gets, the more work there is to do for peace - if we become apathetic, eventually the heavier our crosses will be to bear. Peace is our salvation.
 
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Looking at all the conflict in the world...that is not evidence of fruits of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit doesn't move people to wage war - because the outcome is horrible - is not merciful nor graceful- and has nothing to do with love, patience, kindness, forbearance... That's not God's will then - violence and tragedy. We shouldn't support it, IMO. So, something is wrong with the idea that here and now we just sit and watch the world slide downhill while we rest and enjoy, and just ignore the here and now need to work at healing the world. The vision to work towards is a world that's more heavenly, less hellish. And it is hellish for an increasing number of people.
 
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Kimmio said:
What do you think it means to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling?" not criticising or anything, just asking.
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fear and trembling would contradict Paul's many other exhortations to peace of mind, courage, and confidence in a God that secured our salvation , who gave it totally and completely unconditionally. Fear and trembling from the Greek can also translate , reverence" or "respect. Paul uses the same term in Corinthians.

same as the term God is a jealous God , not that God is Jealous of His Creation but that He is Jealous for , a term that is still used today in Latin , it points to Gods heart and how much he care for the well being of His children



I believe the meaning of "salvation" is not just about hereafter, but about here and now - working toward a better world that is not like this world. And to me that means we work at it ourselves, with the guidance and insight and capability we are given - God working though people. I am not sure the focus was supposed to be the hereafter. Otherwise, I just keep asking, "then why are we here in the first place?" we weren't put here to let the world go to hell in a hand basket. I don't believe that's God's will. Therefore, we've got to work at it. And the more hateful and greedy and corrupt the world gets, the more work there is to do for peace - if we become apathetic, eventually the heavier our crosses will be to bear. Peace is our salvation.
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I agree, salvation begins at the moment of being saved and because we are, our hearts change and begin to work towards Gods will , we don't work to be saved m that's been done and secured, we work because we have been saved
 
But if nobody worked, "picked up their crosses" would we be saved? Would the old ages give way to new ones? We're still here because of the many who have done their part, because it was on their heart to do so for humanity. That's Jesus' legacy, that's eternal.
 
Kimmio said:
But if nobody worked, "picked up their crosses" would we be saved? Would the old ages give way to new ones? We're still here because of the many who have done their part, because it was on their heart to do so for humanity. That's Jesus' legacy, that's eternal.
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1 John 4:19 We love because he first loved us.
 
And he always did...because he's eternal. So as a Spiritual energy...I don't know how else to articulate it...he always was and always will be. He is The Prince of Peace, right? He was that energy incarnate. That peace always existed. It was always in reach if we reach for it. But Jesus, the man who understood and taught the world, knew that we'd fight over it until we figured it out.
 
Kimmio said:
And he always did...because he's eternal. So as a Spiritual energy...I don't know how else to articulate it...he always was and always will be. He is The Prince of Peace, right? He was that energy incarnate. That peace always existed. It was always in reach if we reach for it. But Jesus, the man who understood and taught the world, knew that we'd fight over it until we figured it out.
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I wouldn't call Him energy , energy can not do other than what its characteristics are and based on them we can accurately predict outcomes, nor can we grieve energy , energy has no feelings, no self hood, no will, it cannot create, it cannot comfort or edify, it cannot guide or teach, nor can energy give Life .

what Jesus was and is , is Divinity Incarnate , Life itself
 
I'm getting to the point where being a Christian is leading me to being agnostic. Which I was in the first place, before I knew I was on this journey. It's hard to explain that. But, really, I believe Jesus teaches us that all the religions, denominations, vengeance for past wars that lead to more wars, all the xenophobia (fear of the 'other')...that is all of our own making, and underneath all that, if we want it, by loving God and one another (and Jesus is God and one of us) is peace.
 
Kimmio said:
I'm getting to the point where being a Christian is leading me to being agnostic. Which I was in the first place, before I knew I was on this journey. It's hard to explain that. But, really, I believe Jesus teaches us that all the religions, denominations, vengeance for past wars that lead to more wars, all the xenophobia (fear of the 'other')...that is all of our own making, and underneath all that, if we want it, by loving God and one another (and Jesus is God and one of us) is peace.
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your smile is killing me here
 
blackbelt1961 said:
I wouldn't call Him energy , energy can not do other than what its characteristics are and based on them we can accurately predict outcomes, nor can we grieve energy , energy has no feelings, no self hood, no will, it cannot create, it cannot comfort or edify, it cannot guide or teach, nor can energy give Life .

what Jesus was and is , is Divinity Incarnate , Life itself
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I mean Spirit - something non-material. We are part of him and him us, he was/ is one of us. We are the material. (hey...there's a Police song about that ;) )
 
blackbelt1961 said:
your smile is killing me here
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Thanks. I should change it. Hard to take that goofy mug seriously.

And by agnostic...I can't know with any scientific certainty, of course...but I believe in God and in peace, a God of Peace...and nothing can convince me that God wants us to hate. And too much religious dogma encourages hate and judgment against people who do not follow the same dogma...that's not mine to make. So, I have to just say, ultimately, I can see where good is in the world, and that is where there's people helping, and not hating, people. And that's enough. And that's what motivates me.
 
Kimmio said:
Thanks. I should change it. Hard to take that goofy mug seriously.

And by agnostic...I can't know with any scientific certainty, of course...but I believe in God and in peace, a God of Peace...and nothing can convince me that God wants us to hate. And too much religious dogma encourages hate and judgment against people who do not follow the same dogma...that's not mine to make. So, I have to just say, ultimately, I can see where good is in the world, and that is where there's people helping, and not hating, people. And that's enough. And that's what motivates me.
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I can raise a toast to that.
 
Kimmio said:
Thanks. I should change it. Hard to take that goofy mug seriously.
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nooooooooooooooooooooo


And by agnostic...I can't know with any scientific certainty, of course...but I believe in God and in peace, a God of Peace...and nothing can convince me that God wants us to hate. And too much religious dogma encourages hate and judgment against people who do not follow the same dogma...that's not mine to make. So, I have to just say, ultimately, I can see where good is in the world, and that is where there's people helping, and not hating, people. And that's enough. And that's what motivates me.
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its called faith, you have it in your heart but your mind as all of us , eg scientific certainty doesn't always agree with our inner most being.
 
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