Snoopy on the Psalms

[Mendalla]

Psalm 15 is a bit of an odd psalm really. No effusive praise for the Lord or condemnation of the wicked, just a simple set of maxims for living in right relationship with God. Probably a more effective way of communicating those values than a long, complex legal text, too. And it does not mention actual faith in God or even "honor The Lord", just "honor those who fear The Lord", which suggests this could apply to non-Jews to some degree.

 

[unsafe]

Paradox3 --you said in Post 11 of Psalm 53 thread this

And living a moral life is worthwhile.

What does living a Moral life look like to us counting on our own selves to actually achieve living morally on this earth and can we be consistent in this living -----that is always do what morally is right ?

 

[paradox3]

What does living a Moral life look like to us counting on our own selves to actually achieve living morally on this earth and can we be consistent in this living -----that is always do what morally is right ?

Such an excellent question!

The psalmist seems to think we might need a few rules. He also sees great value in prayer and praise.

Lots to unpack here.

 

[Mendalla]

What does living a Moral life look like to us counting on our own selves to actually achieve living morally on this earth and can we be consistent in this living -----that is always do what morally is right ?

First off, reading and following Psalm 15 is actually not a bad start. Not complete or perfect by any means, but it's not a bad start.

As for the rest of the question, we cannot. There's two basic reasons. Humans are fallible and relationships (to each other and to the world) are complex. If humans were perfect in their relationships and relationships were simple, we wouldn't need religious or civil law codes, nor would we need to have a whole branch of philosophy devoted to morality and ethics. Those two reasons are why we cannot rest on our laurels, but keep trying to be better in our relationships with others. We cannot, in other words, achieve living morally as some kind of end goal. It is an ongoing process that lasts our whole lives. We will get better if we make the effort, but we will never be morally prefect.

 

[unsafe]

So if we can't achieve moral living consistently why should we think that God should just give us a free pass and allow us to live on His Holy Hill ---as living a moral life is what God calls us to do to live on His Holy hill

 

[paradox3]

So if we can't achieve moral living consistently why should we think that God should just give us a free pass and allow us to live on His Holy Hill ---as living a moral life is what God calls us to do to live on His Holy hill

Repentance has got to be part of the equation. It was mentioned directly in Psalms 2 and 4. And possibly alluded to in Psalm 6.

 

[unsafe]

Repentance has got to be part of the equation.

Repentance is a complete mind change ---from this world's view to God's view ----so can a unbeliever do that on their own power---and will the repenting help the person live a more moral life consistently ???? so that God would allow them to live on His Holy hill -----after all our Nature is corrupt ----so would having a mind change be enough ?-----

 

[paradox3]

For some reason I think @unsafe is going to tell us pretty soon about being born again in the holy spirit. Or perhaps accepting Jesus as our personal saviour.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Aye, lectionary was John 3:1-17 today...

 

[unsafe]

For some reason I think @unsafe is going to tell us pretty soon about being born again in the holy spirit. Or perhaps accepting Jesus as our personal saviour.

Well No ----not in the Old Testament ----David was never Born Again ----nor were any of the Israelites -----but they were in right Standing with God ----they had to deal with their sin to come into God's presents -----by animal sacrifice -----so while Faith in God and repentance is a requirement the sin issue is also a requirement ---no one whet to live on God Holy hill in the Old Testament because sin was only covered for a year ---and God will not allow sin to live on His Holy hill ---

The Psalms do take of the coming Messiah

Messiah in the Psalms​

Israel My Glory
https://israelmyglory.org › article › messiah-in-the-psalms

About ten percent, or 16 of the 150 Psalms, are classified as messianic. They are Psalms 2, 8, 16, 22, 23, 24, 40, 41, 45, 68, 69, 72, 89, 102 ...

 

[Waterfall]

Well No ----not in the Old Testament ----David was never Born Again ----nor were any of the Israelites -----but they were in right Standing with God ----they had to deal with their sin to come into God's presents -----by animal sacrifice -----so while Faith in God and repentance is a requirement the sin issue is also a requirement ---no one whet to live on God Holy hill in the Old Testament because sin was only covered for a year ---and God will not allow sin to live on His Holy hill ---

The Psalms do take of the coming Messiah

Messiah in the Psalms​

View attachment 9367
Israel My Glory
https://israelmyglory.org › article › messiah-in-the-psalms

About ten percent, or 16 of the 150 Psalms, are classified as messianic. They are Psalms 2, 8, 16, 22, 23, 24, 40, 41, 45, 68, 69, 72, 89, 102 ...

I have a question about the messianic Psalms being about Jesus.
The majority of Jews don't believe Jesus was the Messiah (yes I'm aware there are Messianic Jews that do), they feel that Jesus did not fulfil the description of the Messiah that was prophesized in the Hebrew Bible and the Messiah is yet to come. The Psalms for them aren't about Jesus. Christians have included a second coming to cover this I believe.
So my question is, do you believe in the Hebrew Bibles prophecies or only some? How do you justify believing some and not others?
I'm sincerely curious how this is justified by Christians because I do feel Jesus is worth following.

 

[unsafe]

So my question is, do you believe in the Hebrew Bibles prophecies or only some?

I believe the whole Bible --Old and new Testament was inspired by God as it says it is -----the Prophecy's in the Old Testament are about the Coming of the Messiah and what He comes to do ----Just because the Jews didn't accept Jesus as their Messiah what has that to do with God predicting His Son will come and will bring a better Covenant ----

God had a plan before He created this world ---so His Human Creation has nothing to say about what God planned in the very beginning -----

How do you justify believing some and not others?

I believe the whole bible --so I have no idea what your saying here ===

 

[unsafe]

The majority of Jews don't believe Jesus was the Messiah (yes I'm aware there are Messianic Jews that do), they feel that Jesus did not fulfil the description of the Messiah that was prophesized in the Hebrew Bible and the Messiah is yet to come.

Well I understand that ----The Jews wanted a Messiah who wold become their King and protect them from the Romans ----so their Human thinking got in the way of allowing their heart and mind to change as to the truth of who Jesus was and why He came -----and that has carried on to today for a lot of the Jewish Nation ---but the Jewish Nation will reap their victory at the end of the 7 year Tribulation for their Salvation ---as God Honors His Pledge to His first chosen Nation -----

Do you know Why God chose the Jewish Nation to be His -----

Deuteronomy 7:7

Expanded Bible​

7 The Lord did not ·care [have affection] for you and choose you because there were many of you—you are the smallest nation of all

 

[GordW]

Well I understand that ----The Jews wanted a Messiah who wold become their King and protect them from the Romans ----so their Human thinking got in the way of allowing their heart and mind to change as to the truth of who Jesus was and why He came -----and that has carried on to today for a lot of the Jewish Nation

OR to look at it differently, with a different view of Scripture:
In light of their experience of Jesus and their experience of Resurrection the Early followers of Christ looked back into their tradition and re-interpreted things to match what they saw God doing in the Jesus event.
Doesn't mean one was right and the other wrong, it means that sometimes we see differently based on our experiences

 

[unsafe]

Well --you can spin it anyway you like ----but the fact is the Jewish Nation kept their hearts hardened towards who Jesus really was and what He came to do ---

The Old Testament is full of the Prophecies of the Coming of the Messiah and what He was to do and they refused to acknowledge any of it -----as their minds were Blinded and their eyes veiled to the truth of what was predicted ----

All God the Father had to do was to change all their hardened Hearts to Flesh hearts and open their eyes to see and their minds to comprehend ----but God allows us to have free choice and the Jewish Nation refused to change their hearts of Stone in spite of all God's pulling on them to change -----and they rebelled against Jesus teachings ---and rebelled against who He was and who He said he was ------

But God has a plan in Place for He chosen Nation -----and in the end they will come to Jesus and have eternal life ----so a happy ending For His chosen Nation is to come ---

So thinking different about the scripture will not change God's plan which is still playing out ---His plan will come to pass no matter how we humans interpret His Word ---who is Jesus --

 

[BetteTheRed]

but the fact is the Jewish Nation kept their hearts hardened towards who Jesus really was and what He came to do --

Of course they did, because he didn't meet the criteria of Messiah as described in their scriptures.

 

[unsafe]

Of course they did, because he didn't meet the criteria of Messiah as described in their scriptures.

So your saying they made up their own Religion and introduced their own Human criteria and Refused to accept the real message that He was conveying to them because it didn't fit what they wanted to believe ----so they kept their own hearts hardened so they could make up their own message ----

Sounds like many other Religions of this world -----they all do the same -----twist scripture to suit what they want it to say ---instead of trying to grasp the real message behind the Logos word ----

 

[BetteTheRed]

So your saying they made up their own Religion and introduced their own Human criteria and Refused to accept the real message that He was conveying to them because it didn't fit what they wanted to believe

I'm not saying that at all. There was an existing religion long before Christianity that had a vision of a Messiah in their texts. The person Jesus may have satisfied some of the detailed requirements, but certainly not all. The existing religion of Judaism was entitled to reject the new ideas/systems proposed by the rabbi jesus and paul.

 

[GordW]

Well --you can spin it anyway you like ----but the fact is the Jewish Nation kept their hearts hardened towards who Jesus really was and what He came to do ---

The Old Testament is full of the Prophecies of the Coming of the Messiah and what He was to do and they refused to acknowledge any of it -----as their minds were Blinded and their eyes veiled to the truth of what was predicted ----

All God the Father had to do was to change all their hardened Hearts to Flesh hearts and open their eyes to see and their minds to comprehend ----but God allows us to have free choice and the Jewish Nation refused to change their hearts of Stone in spite of all God's pulling on them to change -----and they rebelled against Jesus teachings ---and rebelled against who He was and who He said he was ------

But God has a plan in Place for He chosen Nation -----and in the end they will come to Jesus and have eternal life ----so a happy ending For His chosen Nation is to come ---

So thinking different about the scripture will not change God's plan which is still playing out ---His plan will come to pass no matter how we humans interpret His Word ---who is Jesus --

Frankly this is typical Christian supercessionism--maybe the end times will not have everyone coming to Christian understandings but a broader new understanding of who God is and how God is acting will be the result. And typical Christian arrogance about knowing that their understanding of Scripture and God is the only right one. I find it highly offensive.

 

[paradox3]

Christianity has conflated several Jewish concepts into its ideas about Jesus. These include:

The warrior king type Messiah
The pastoral shepherd type Messiah
The suffering servant from Isaiah
The Passover lamb
The high priest Melchizedek
The Second Adam
The New Moses
A later prophet
The Son of Man
Son of God
The New Elijah

And probably more.

Who do we say Jesus is?