Snoopy Approaches Acts

[paradox3]

Gamaliel was actually quoted to me by one of the revs on WC when I was struggling with the you-know-who & where situation.

Wise man.

But back to your comment @Mendalla

Martyrdom is also valued in Islam, no? But maybe it's not as mainstream as what we see in the Christian tradition.

 

[Mendalla]

Martyrdom is also valued in Islam, no?

I kind of left it out because it's influenced by Christianity moreso than influencing Christianity (don't tell my Muslims I said that, though). There are definitely martyrs in Islam but I don't find it to the same degree. Remember that they were only "underdogs" for a very short time during Muhammad's time. Once they became dominant in Arabia, the Arabs very quickly expanded into the most expansive and powerful empire since the collapse of the Western Roman Empire. The Sassanid Persians fell to them, Byzantium shrank down to just Asia Minor and Southeastern Europe. Spain became Muslim for a few hundred years. So they didn't have the long period of persecution that Christianity did (from Jesus' death c. 30-33CE until the Edict of Milan in 313CE), thus fewer martyrdoms to persecution. Dying for your faith does matter to them, but they don't have the brutal, sometimes borderline torture porn, martyrdom stories that I hear from some branches of Christianity (e.g. some of the RC and Orthodox saints). They are more about their history of defending their faith militarily against attack from "infidels", e.g. the Crusades.

 

[unsafe]

So this Scripture today ----is a big teaching moment from one of its own members to the whole Council -----

So we see that what Peter said in verses 31 and 32 really gets under their skin ---their rage and jealousy gets the better of them ---they were cut to their heart -and infuriated -----and they want to kill the Apostles ----

These are teachers of the Word who know the 5th Command from God ----and say they Know God and Follow God's laws -----clear cut case of False Christians- and Hypocrites --here -----as they preach the Laws yet break them themselves ----

From Google -----
the 5th commandment "Thou shalt not kill"?

The Fifth Commandment prohibition against killing clearly forbids direct and intentional killing. Murder is always gravely sinful, regardless of the form it takes. In a similar way, indirectly bringing about a person's death, when done intentionally, is also a clear violation of the commandment

I say -----So this Council member named in verse 34--get the Apostles to go out from them so he can address the Council

34 Gamaliel, a teacher of the Law, highly esteemed by all the people, standing up, ordered that the apostles be taken outside for a little while.

I say -----This person is a highly respected Jewish Rabbi leader who has big influence among the Council and who is mentioned again later in Acts as a teacher of Saul of Tarsus -----

read all for yourselves

Who was Gamaliel in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

Who was Gamaliel in the Bible? Who was Rabbi Gamaliel? Was Saul of Tarsus a disciple of Gamaliel?

www.gotquestions.org

Gamaliel was a first-century Jewish rabbi and a leader in the Jewish Sanhedrin. Gamaliel is mentioned a couple of times in Scripture as a famous and well-respected teacher. Indirectly, Gamaliel had a profound effect on the early church.

I say -------So Gamaliel now gives a Lecture and Warning to the Council about how God works and that their tactics of hatred will not stop the Apostles from Preaching and teaching about Jesus Christ ----if their teaching is directed by God ----

Gamaliel is the only one that has Spiritual insight into who God is and how He works ---So this Jewish Rabbi had a Heart change as He has Spiritual insight about this issue and how it should be handled ----while the others hearts remain hardened and are Spiritually Blinded as to their anger and hatred how killing the Apostles will only backfire on them all ----

Gamaliel gives them an example of what happened to Theudas,and Judas the Galilean who were both Killed and the people who listened to them were all scattered -----

He tells the council to withdraw from the Apostles and leave them alone as time will be their judge ---if this is driven by man they will fail ---if it is driven by God nothing or no one will stop them -----

Great advice and great wisdom given here by Gamaliel ---as he tells them to take care in what they do to the Apostles ---so the Apostles are brought back in and they flogged them --and warned them about preaching and using the name of Jesus ----before releasing them -----
So now we see the Joy ----flowing from the Apostles as they were being counted as worthy by suffering dishonor in the name of Jesus Christ -----this is True Apostleship ----

verse 41 AMPC
So they went out from the presence of the council (Sanhedrin), rejoicing that they were being counted worthy [dignified by the indignity] to suffer shame and be exposed to disgrace for [the sake of] His name.

And we see in verse 42 ---that the persecution did not stop the Apostles from doing God's Will ----
42 Yet [in spite of the threats] they never ceased for a single day, both in the temple area and at home, to teach and to proclaim the good news (Gospel) of Jesus [as] the Christ (the Messiah).

I say ---
And today True Christians can feel Joy when persecution comes because they are truly Following Jesus who was severely punished for preaching Truth -----

Happiness is an external emotion -----Joy comes from within ----knowing who you really are in Christ Jesus -----

Who's reflection do we see in the mirror --our own or Jesus -----when you are Born Again you are Hidden in Christ with God ------Colossians 3:1-3

 

[paradox3]

Some traditions hold that Gamaliel eventually became a Christian but I understand this is just speculation.

 

[Mendalla]

Some traditions hold that Gamaliel eventually became a Christian but I understand this is just speculation.

More likely Christian myth-making to try win over Jews.

 

[paradox3]

Gamaliel is one of the few Pharisees presented positively in the NT. I am intrigued by the theory that Jesus, himself, might have been a Pharisee.

Arguing amongst themselves was something the Pharisees did regularly. But I dunno. It seems unlikely when you consider they wanted to kill him off.

Another idea is that Jesus might have been one of the Essenes.

 

[Mendalla]

He did share a belief in the resurrection and judgement with the Pharisees and I found that rather intriguing when I learned it given they are kind of sold as "bad guys" in simplistic presentations of the Gospels. But one can be influenced by or share views of a group without actually being a member of that group. From what I have learned about the Essenes over the years, they seem more likely but, again, are not a perfect fit. I discovered from a podcast on them last year that they were probably an offshoot of the same line as the Sadducees rather than being related to the Pharisees. John the Baptist is often hypothesized to be an Essene (indeed, some scholars seem to take it as a given) so even if Jesus was not one, they could have been an influence on him. The 40 day retreat to the desert does seem very Essene.

 

[paradox3]

Seems odd that the Essenes would have given up privileged positions as Sadducees to become homeless wanderers. The Sadducees tended to be wealthy and they were closely associated with the temple.

But who knows? I find it interesting that religion was evolving even in the early second temple period.

 

[Mendalla]

Seems odd that the Essenes would have given up privileged positions as Sadducees to become homeless wanderers. The Sadducees tended to be wealthy and they were closely associated with the temple.

But who knows? I find it interesting that religion was evolving even in the early second temple period.

I can find the podcast if you're interested. It is one I still listen to so I can find that episode again (actually, I think it was a two-parter).

 

[paradox3]

I can find the podcast if you're interested. It is one I still listen to so I can find that episode again (actually, I think it was a two-parter).

That would be great. Thx.

 

[unsafe]

found this

A Portrait Of Jesus' World - The Essenes And The Dead Sea Scrolls | From Jesus To Christ - The First Christians | FRONTLINE | PBS

The Essenes and the Dead Sea Scrolls​

What does the discovery of these scrolls reveal about first century Judaism and the roots of Christianity?

 

[unsafe]

I am intrigued by the theory that Jesus, himself, might have been a Pharisee.

Jesus couldn't have been a Pharisee ---as to be a Pharisees you have to be a Levi

Jesus was not a Levi ----Jesus was from the tribe of Judah----


AI Overview

No, Jesus was not of the Levitical priesthood. He was from the tribe of Judah, not Levi, and the Levitical priesthood was specifically limited to those descended from Levi. The New Testament emphasizes that Jesus's priesthood is of a different order, the order of Melchizedek, which is superior to the Levitical priesthood, according to the book of Hebrews.

 

[paradox3]

Jesus couldn't have been a Pharisee ---as to be a Pharisees you have to be a Levi

Actually I understand this is incorrect. Levi's were priests. One became a Pharisee through study and piety. Over time they organized themselves into a religious party AFAIK.

Jesus was not a Levi ----Jesus was from the tribe of Judah----

Yes this is true.

 

[paradox3]

No one has commented on your link to the article about the Essenes @unsafe. I took a quick look and it is very long. Could you maybe summarize a few key points?

 

[paradox3]

Just looked up the relationship between Sadducees and Levites. I learned that some Sadducees were Levites but not all of them.

And not all Levites were Sadducees

There were the Zealots too. They advocated for resistance against the Romans IIRC.

 

[unsafe]

Could you maybe summarize a few key points?

Ya --for sure ---

To me they sound like they are more Spiritually enlightened than the Pharisees ----

This is from the article -----

It is thought that the Essenes Produced the dead sea scrolls

Apparently abandoned Jerusalem apparently in protest because they didn't like how the Temple was being run

Apparently they went to the desert to prepare the way for the Lord following the commands as they saw it of the Prophet Isaiah

They were not a new group apparently had been around for a long time ----

They wanted to get away from the worldliness of the Temple and Jerusalem

They were known as the apocalyptic sect of Judaism ---they believed they were the true form of their Religion

Apparently using Isaiah they thought of themselves as the righteous Remnant ---the chosen ones

They stood against the mainstream of the Jewish life and what was going on in Jerusalem

They were apparently known as separatists---they were people who moved away ----

They had an apocalyptic point of view and believed that there would be a New Kingdom coming at some point ----

 

[paradox3]

Acts 6: 1-7

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 6:1-7 - New English Translation

The Appointment of the First Seven Deacons - Now in those days, when the disciples were growing in number, a complaint arose on the part of the Greek-speaking Jews against the native Hebraic Jews, because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food. So the twelve called...

www.biblegateway.com

The Greek speaking Jews complain that their widows are being overlooked in the daily distribution of food.

So the twelve call the whole group of disciples together and ask for assistance in this regard.

Select from among you, they say, seven men who are well- attested, full of the Spirit and of wisdom. They will be given the task of feeding the widows so the twelve can devote themselves to prayer and ministry of the word.

The group is pleased and chooses Stephen and six others. The apostles place their hands on them.

The movement continues to grow and even some priests become obedient to the new faith.

 

[paradox3]

This is a great snapshot of the early church. It seems to be growing in leaps and bounds and the need for more structure is emerging.

The first deacons are appointed and hands are laid on them by the apostles. We will see tomorrow that they have been given the power to perform miraculous signs.

 

[Mendalla]

These deacons would be the beginnings of a second order of ministry (apostles being the first). The growth of the movement is clearly necessitating additional workers and leaders, so the apostles respond. They will focus on ministry of prayer and word, these seven deacons will deal with more practical matters. Basically, they create a division between evangelical and pastoral ministry. Seems like a sensible approach to deal with both the issue at hand (the concerns about neglect of widows from one of the churches internal groups) and more broadly, the practical issues that rapid growth is going to keep raising.

 

[paradox3]

Interesting that the job of food distribution was seen to require Spirit and wisdom. In other words, the twelve were not looking for just any warm body to do the task.