Snoopy Approaches Acts

[unsafe]

The two men never actually met in the physical world

I think that is coming up later in acts ---that they did meet in this physical world ----but we will see -----

 

[paradox3]

I think that is coming up later in acts ---that they did meet in this physical world ----but we will see -----

Could be something we will interpret differently when we get there.

 

[unsafe]

Could be something we will interpret differently when we get there.

Well that is most likely possible-

 

[GordW]

@unsafe
We know that Paul considered himself entitled to be an apostle. He got all of his instruction from Jesus in a vision. The two men never actually met in the physical world.

Well there is also an understanding that after Paul's vision on the Road (which is described more than once in Acts and not the same both time IIRC) and before he starts his missionary/evangelist work he is tutored in the faith by the leaders of the Jesus movement. I think this is referred to in one of his letters???? Of course he then develops an understanding of the faith that differs from theirs in some ways.

When we get to the recounting of PAul's vision we might remember that PAul himself never tells us the story in his letters, even when trying to defend his claim to apostleship.

 

[GordW]

I think Paul was called to be an apostle ----His apostleship came directly from Jesus Christ ----

Romans 1:1​

The Gospel Exalted​

1 Paul, abond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle (special messenger, personally chosen representative), set apart for [preaching] the gospel of God [the good news of salvation],

WIthout question that is Paul's self- understanding. And unquestionably the tradition of the church follows Paul in that understanding. I would argue that the author of Acts agrees with Paul's call to apostleship. However it does not match what that author has PEter saying is required in Acts 1. Which shows that sometimes GOd has a different understanding....

 

[GordW]

This is something people who are grieving often do (act too quickly). Maybe Peter didn't take time to come to terms with his loss?

Organizations and people also do it in the face of (real or perceived) threat. When the church might do best to listen for what God is saying/look for what God is doing as it feels the "we are dying" threat there is a big push to "do something!!!! do something NOW!!!"

 

[paradox3]

Organizations and people also do it in the face of (real or perceived) threat.

Yes, true. Peter and the other disciples were likely experiencing both the grief of losing Jesus and threats to their safety.

When the church might do best to listen for what God is saying/look for what God is doing as it feels the "we are dying" threat there is a big push to "do something!!!! do something NOW!!!"

Yes, I was thinking about this when you pointed out that Peter did not wait as he had been instructed. It sometimes feels to me like the dying church narrative gets too much air time.

 

[GordW]

Yes, true. Peter and the other disciples were likely experiencing both the grief of losing Jesus and threats to their safety.


Yes, I was thinking about this when you pointed out that Peter did not wait as he had been instructed. It sometimes feels to me like the dying church narrative gets too much air time.

To be fair, much of my thinking along this line owes a LOT to this book that I read last year. I believe it is one that participants in the (Re)Generate group were asked to read before their first gathering.

 

[paradox3]

There always seems to be a magical belief that we just need to DO more in the church to reverse the decline in attendance. Our denomination keeps dreaming up new ideas and doesn't always give them time to work. (Ahem. Case in point the original WC.)

Remember when God was going to do a new thing? I don't believe I ever found out what it was.

I know of two congregational EDGE consultations that took place a few years ago. Be of more service to your community, people were basically told. That will get us more members, right? /s

Sorry this is getting us off on a tangent.

 

[unsafe]

However it does not match what that author has PEter saying is required in Acts 1

So here is the Scripture where Jesus chooses to call His 12 Disciples --Apostles ----

There is no criteria given here by Jesus as to one becoming an Apostle -----Jesus just prayed called his 12 and the name was given to them --------

Luke 6:12-13 AMP​

Choosing the Twelve​

12 Now at this time Jesus went off to the mountain to pray, and He spent the whole night in prayer to God.

13 When day came, He called His disciples and selected twelve of them, whom He also named apostles (special messengers, personally chosen representatives):

14 Simon, whom He also named Peter, and his brother Andrew; and [the brothers] James and John; and Philip, and Bartholomew [also called Nathanael];

15 and Matthew (Levi, the tax collector) and Thomas; and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot;

16 Judas [also called Thaddaeus] the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor [to the Lord].

So here is what I think ---

Jesus had ascended and was no longer with the 11 ---they needed to replace Judas who was among the Apostles and so Peter made his own criteria for choosing who the Replacement Apostle would be ---

I say ------This makes sense to me that Peter would use this as a guide to choose Judas's replacement -----they needed all to be on the same page to preach the same Gospel and be able to say they witnessed Jesus alive for themselves -----

But that is just the criteria Peter used here ---Jesus did not ever say that this is how the Apostle is to be picked -----

Acts 1:21-22
​

21 So of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus spent with us,

22 beginning with the baptism by John [at the outset of Jesus’ ministry] until the day when He was taken up from us—one of these men must become a witness with us [to testify] of His resurrection.”

I say
So named Apostles are just this -----
named apostles (special messengers, personally chosen representatives):

So the 12 were sent out by Jesus to preach the New Covenant to the Jews and to do signs and wonders --heal the sick ---cast out demons ---etc


And Paul fits all this criteria to be called an apostle
special messengers, personally chosen representatives):

As Paul was sent out by Jesus to preach the new Covenant to the Gentiles and to do signs and wonders ---heal the sick ---cast out demons etc -----

 

[BetteTheRed]

Seems to me that Paul couldn't have qualified as one of the 12 given the criteria "with him from his baptism", which is not true of Saul or Paul.

Also I'm not sure why we need to have 12, versus 11, disciples. In a world that doesn't operate on numerology, why does this matter to us?

 

[paradox3]

Acts 2:1-13

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 2:1-13 - New English Translation

The Holy Spirit and the Day of Pentecost - Now when the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like a violent wind blowing came from heaven and filled the entire house where they were sitting. And tongues spreading out like a fire appeared to them and...

www.biblegateway.com

It is the day of Pentecost and the group of believers (the twelve or the larger group?) is together in Jerusalem to celebrate the festival.

Pentecost (Shavuot), we may need to remind ourselves, is one of three harvest festivals commanded by God in the Torah. All Jewish men are required to make pilgrimage to Jerusalem.

It will later include observation of the giving of the Torah to Moses. But this doesn't happen until the destruction of the Temple several decades into the future.

Shavuot is also known as the festival of ingathering, first fruits or weeks. It takes place 50 days after Passover. So here we are, 10 days after Jesus ascended to heaven.

A sound like a violent wind from heaven arrives and fills the house where "they" (who, exactly?) are staying. Tongues spread out like fire and come to rest on each one of them.

All are filled with the Holy Spirit and begin to speak other languages. These are real languages, recognized by their native speakers. The crowd is confused. What does this mean? Some jeer and say the speakers are filled with new wine.

 

[paradox3]

What actually happened here, do you think?

It is still a distinctly Jewish story. I don't think I even realized until a few years ago that Pentecost was a Jewish festival.

Acts 2 has echoes of the tower of Babel incident in the Torah.

 

[Mendalla]

Acts 2 has echoes of the tower of Babel incident in the Torah.

In fact, I've seen it interpreted as undoing the Tower of Babel to a degree. Basically, the Babel incident disunited humanity by making us unable to understand each other. The Pentecost event gave the followers of Jesus who received the Holy Spirit the ability to overcome that, basically.

That said, I certainly understand those who thought spirits of another type were involved (Acts 2:13).

 

[paradox3]

Really interesting that the disciples (as a group) can now communicate with all the nations of the world where Jews are found.

Does this say something about faith coming to people on their own terms? Adapting to circumstances, perhaps?

 

[Mendalla]

Meh, they just got the latest AI translator app.

 

[paradox3]

Meh, they just got the latest AI translator app.

The Holy Spirit was ahead of her time, maybe.

 

[unsafe]

So we see in Acts 2 that the Time has come for the Disciples to be Filled with the Holy Spirit -They had the indwelling of the Holy spirit before the infilling of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit and the Filling of the Holy Spirit are separate Events ----

The Disciples receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit when Jesus appears to them in the Locked room after His Resurrection -----John 20:22

Now here they are being Filled with the Holy Spirit ----so they can continue to preform signs and wonders ---and Preach the Gospel with power and might -----

Acts 2 AMP
4 And they were all filled [that is, diffused throughout their being] with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues (different languages), as the Spirit was giving them the ability to speak out [clearly and appropriately].

There were some Devout God fearing Jews living in Jerusalem who when they hear the sound that came from heaven they gathered together and were perplexed when they heard the Disciples speaking in languages they knew -----and were wondering what was meant by this phenomena ------

The we see that others were ridiculing them by saying they were drunk from being full of sweet wine ----

Scripture tells us that the Pagans ---(Gentiles ) use to have drunken orgies ----so they thought that the Disciples were having wine and got drunk ----

1 Peter 4:3 AMP​

3 For the time already past is [more than] enough for doing what the [unsaved] Gentiles like to do—living [unrestrained as you have done] in a course of [shameless] sensuality, lusts, drunkenness, carousing, drinking parties, and wanton idolatries.

Footnote Here
Ephesians 5:19 The Greeks had a tradition of holding drinking parties (called, in the singular, a symposium) where the object was to sing the praises of the pagan gods while becoming drunk.

I say -------So it would be understandable that some would assume that the Disciples were drunk with sweet wine ---

Does this say something about faith coming to people on their own terms?

My view here
Well I don't know about Faith coming to people on their own terms ------but I do think that God's Faith could be inbirthed in people by hearing the Gospel in their own language -----as long as they have accepted a heart change from God the Father --that allows the scripture to penetrate and take hold in their hearts --

I say -----Interesting to note here that during this Shavuot ---Many Jewish people stay up all night studying the Torah ---

Up All Night​

What I learned by giving up sleep in favor of study on Shavuot​

by
Alter Yisrael Shimon Feuerman

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/holidays/articles/up-all-night-shavuot

 

[paradox3]

This is the first I have heard that indwelling and infilling of the Holy Spirit are two different things.

 

[unsafe]

This is the first I have heard that indwelling and infilling of the Holy Spirit are two different things

AI does a good job of explaining the difference between the 2
AI

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a one-time event that occurs when a person believes in Jesus Christ, signifying their permanent possession by the Spirit. Filling with the Holy Spirit, on the other hand, is a repeated experience of being empowered and controlled by the Spirit for specific tasks . Think of it this way: indwelling is like receiving a permanent resident's permit, while filling is like being called up for a specific duty.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Indwelling:

• Permanent Presence:
  The Holy Spirit permanently resides within every believer from the moment of salvation.
  
  
• Position in Christ:
  Indwelling signifies the believer's position as a child of God and a member of Christ's body.
  
  
• Sealing:
  Some interpret indwelling as the "sealing" of the believer, marking them as God's possession.
  
  
• Example:
  "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise" (Ephesians 1:13).
  

Filling:

• Empowerment for Service:
  The Holy Spirit fills believers to equip them for service, boldness, discernment, and other tasks.