Resurrection: Does Your Minister/Church Preach What You Believe?

[chansen]

I know its your humble opinion , that's not what i was quoting you on , @airclean33 said nothing about hell as a coercion, neither has @unsafe .

we can though discuses the topic of hell as a warring, but regardless of what you think, you cant get away from the fact that its is biblical and taught by Jesus as a grave warning . The only thing you can say is baaawwwwwww I dont believe it

Right, because it's a laughable attempt at conversion through intimidation. Your boogeyman doesn't scare people anymore.

 

[unsafe]

chansen ---just for you

Satan: I'm Your Boogie Man

 

[dreamerman]

The doctrine of a God of Love sending non-Christians to an eternal hell of torment is, imho, a total misunderstanding of what Jesus taught. It’s been used as a “stick” by churches for far too long.

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son to the world, to die a horrible death, so that he that do not believeth in him shall spend eternity in hell.

 

[blackbelt1961]

chansen ---just for you

Satan: I'm Your Boogie Man

kc and the sunshine band , I grew up with them, hahahah

 

[airclean33]

"Yes Neo it was a coercion , Father", Son". Holy Spirit". You do know what the word "coercion" means, right? The act of persuading someone into a belief through the fear of hell is one of the lowest and mean spirited gospels I can think of.

---Airclean--post--
True it may be I don't understand The Word Coercion", but could be you don't Ether.
This is more or less as I was thinking.
. History

Historically, the use of coercion by powerful actors has been of great concern to philosophers and legal theorists. Detailed attention to understanding the concept coercion, however, is a relatively recent phenomenon. One effect of this discrepant attention is that it is sometimes difficult to determine what precise meaning earlier writers intended in their discussions of “coercion,” as well as to decide whether “coercion” captures something different from or related to other frequently used terms, such as violence, compulsion, punishment, force, or interference. A brief survey of a few notable thinkers suggests that coercion has commonly been understood as a use of a certain kind of power for the purpose of gaining advantages over others (including self-protection), punishing non-compliance with demands, and imposing one's will on the will of other agents. The kind of power needed for these functions is the sort that states and other forceful or violent agents possess. One of the clearest, most important uses of coercion has been understood to be the state's enforcement of law, either through direct uses of force or through punishments meted out to lawbreakers. The state's use of coercion is thought to be licensed in particular for the sake of preventing private acts of violence or coercion, as well as for punishing the failure to keep agreements. These public uses of coercion are thought justified because they make possible private cooperation and peaceable coexistence among people not linked by ties of affection or blood.

--Neo--Post
But I understand why it's done, as Satan and hell are probably two of the most misunderstood concepts a new born Christian possesses. Reading the Bible to its literal word distracts one from understanding it's real meaning. Imho. And this is where your quote below comes into play: we must first be spiritual in nature, in an honest and sincere manner, before we can truly understand what the Bible is trying to say. Claiming that the Bible condemns sinners into hell for not being a Christian is an awful gospel to spread. Again, imho.

--Airclean--post--
Again you are smart to put in your imho . as that is what you post here"

--Neo-- post--.
Hell is the physical world we live in now. It's a world where we are limited by time. Without an understanding of the reincarnation of the Soul into this physical world, over and over again, there is no clear understanding of what hell is. Our physical existence is a training ground for the Soul to learn. It's no coincidence that Satan is associated with the Roman god Saturn, who the Greeks called Chronus, the personification of time. Think about this.

--Airclean--post --
You for got to put in your humble opinion , so I then state what you have post here is WRONG".

--Neo posted--
"It would be nice if some here would really read GODS Word". Yes it would, regardless if that "Word" is written in a book or spread out across nature, meaning that the Word could also be written directly into the very fabric of our being or it could be written in the sky for all to see. Or it could be all of the above.

--Airclean--post--
Now This is very true Neo, You can know GOD" from His work", Do you believe you"can understand GOD" by this? When He tells you all , you need to know, through HIS Word? Which you don't seem to known and understand.

--Neo post..
Historically, the use of coercion by powerful actors has been of great concern to philosophers and legal theorists. Detailed attention to understanding the concept coercion, however, is a relatively recent phenomenon. One effect of this discrepant attention is that it is sometimes difficult to determine what precise meaning earlier writers intended in their discussions of “coercion,” as well as to decide whether “coercion” captures something different from or related to other frequently used terms, such as violence, compulsion, punishment, force, or interference. A brief survey of a few notable thinkers suggests that coercion has commonly been understood as a use of a certain kind of power for the purpose of gaining advantages over others (including self-protection), punishing non-compliance with demands, and imposing one's will on the will of other agents. The kind of power needed for these functions is the sort that states and other forceful or violent agents possess. One of the clearest, most important uses of coercion has been understood to be the state's enforcement of law, either through direct uses of force or through punishments meted out to lawbreakers. The state's use of coercion is thought to be licensed in particular for the sake of preventing private acts of violence or coercion, as well as for punishing the failure to keep agreements. These public uses of coercion are thought justified because they make possible private cooperation and peaceable coexistence among people not linked by ties of affection or blood.

Airclean--post..(True)---

Neo --post-..
I'm assuming that you mean spiritual in nature, otherwise why would God write a book that only God could understand? The Bible was written by well meaning, spiritually inspired men. It was then interpreted (usually) by well meaning, spiritually inspired men and women.

Airclean--..
Neo GOD did not write a book Humankind could not read. But the kind of book , where only throws who have GODS" Holy Spirit in them can really understand".

-Neo--post-...
This leaves a great possibility and even a likelihood for misinterpretation, as is the case in the personification of Satan and his abode called hell, or the concept of Adam and Eve and their "fall" from paradise.--

-Airclean--post-..
Who ever told you saton lives in hell? This is not true. It will be a place that he" will be cast into, like a Jail. The earth is were he lives right here, with you and me. So you believe it would be better , for the regular person should be left to intrepid The Word? Than GOD himself ?Even with GODS help we can make a mistake, I have said this already. As we are still dealing with the flesh". But we also have Sisters, and Brothers, to help us , to make us, to look again.

-Neo--post--
"Here is something , that may help. GOD is The same yesterday Today, and Tomorrow". Sure ok, I can agree this this. The Tibetan says the spirit is not restricted by time, he says "the spiritual man is not conscious of time, once he is separated from the physical body. Time is the sequential registration by the brain of states of awareness, and of progressive contacts with phenomena. There is no such thing as time on the inner planes, as humanity understands it. There are only cycles of activity or of non-activity".

"Good luck to you, if you don't have the infill of GODS" Holy Spirit". Thanks AC, though this does sound a little backhanded. Some people are awake in this world while others are like the walking dead, as far as spiritual awareness goes. I believe all this is about to change as a great "awakening" is on the horizon for everyone.

--Airclean--post--
It was not meant to be a back hand. I not that kind of guy. If I ever hit you , you would no it. GODS way is for Him", to show you the way". It is by The LORD GOD" we understand. Our minds in flesh," is against GODS" ways. Our Spirit mines have been changed , into belief," in His ways'. The book of JOHN 6:63.
Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
All Glory Is GODS . May God help you to understand. airclean33-Gord.

 

[Luce NDs]

Quote by American Republican today:

"I'm conservative because it is the Christian thing to do!" Light advancement on a stuck institution regarding increased learning of the eternal realm?
Got to make one scratch the head over the move towards naïveté ...

 

[Neo]

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son to the world, to die a horrible death, so that he that do not believeth in him shall spend eternity in hell.

It does sound like a fantasy story, doesn't it?

 

[Neo]

The thing about doctrines like Satan and eternal damnation is that people are much more intelligent and much more informed these days to accept such a preposterous doctrine. The unjustness and the unfairness of the whole doctrine presents some serious reservations. There are some very good explanations as to why the Bible speaks of hell as a destination for those who fall short of perfection, but without the doctrine of reincarnation the Church's ideas on this subject simply don't make sense. I'm not sure about all of the facts in this following article, but I do believe it was the early Church that removed the doctrine of reincarnation from Christianity: Reincarnation: The Church’s Biggest Lie. As a result of this lie the Church has needed to perform illogical doctrinal contortions in order to work around it.

Some of my thoughts re this idea that only Christians go to heaven while all others burn:

A single life of indiscretion can put your eternal soul at risk of eternal damnation? We are far too weak of a species to be given that kind of responsibility. Doesn't God know this?

A single life born in poverty surely would not provide the same opportunities to become a good little Christian. Surely God knows this.

A single life born in a Hindu or a Buddhist community is not likely to become a born again Christian. So then what? The answer is simple: if you are a Hindu then be a Hindu, if you are a Buddhist then be a Buddhist, and if you are a Christian then be a Christian. As long as we live with love in our hearts then we are on the right path.

It doesn't matter "what" religion or non-religion one adheres to. But it does matter "how" that person lives the life they were given, because through "sincerity of spirit", "honesty of mind", and at least some degree of "detachment", we can follow the path of least resistance towards salvation. No religion needed. What do you think religious leaders would think of this philosophy? I'm sure most of them wouldn't like it at all since it circumvents what they've spent a lifetime promoting. Attachments, even to ideologies, can become millstones once they outlive their expiration date.

 

[Neo]

--Airclean--post--
It was not meant to be a back hand. I not that kind of guy. If I ever hit you , you would no it. GODS way is for Him", to show you the way". It is by The LORD GOD" we understand. Our minds in flesh," is against GODS" ways. Our Spirit mines have been changed , into belief," in His ways'. The book of JOHN 6:63.
Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
All Glory Is GODS . May God help you to understand. airclean33-Gord.

You keep thinking that I'm saying the flesh is more important than spirit. Can you show me where I've led you to believe this? Spirit trumps matter. One is a cause, the other an effect. I've been saying this for years.

 

[Luce NDs]

It does sound like a fantasy story, doesn't it?

Parietal guidance is often quite painful ... there is a surgical protocol for efficient separation ...

Could define a rift where emotions and thoughts form God and the devil in a strange mind. Then if God directs to love the alien is that a strange devil of a thought to pick up on ...

Lets us gather at the river where all demons are pis'd laughing ... partying as Hebrews in Babbling waters ... essence of sol ... hydro & oxy'd jinn ... rated! Nothing left but the drip ... X-spurts? Perfection is the way it wasn't ... thus the opposing positive thoughts that older was better 'nous ... they weren't ... but generally mad more offspring due to not knowing any beta ... what's beta ... the second upstanding thought ... put a baccus overit ... and 4-X skins were evolved ... later latex and synthetic ... to save de lamp for folding into sheep ... light Mediterranean fests, with tomato, olives, etc.?

The narrative of life on the goes ... illusive as Amaes ... Ami's thingy?

 

[airclean33]

You keep thinking that I'm saying the flesh is more important than spirit. Can you show me where I've led you to believe this? Spirit trumps matter. One is a cause, the other an effect. I've been saying this for years.

Airclean-post.....
Here we are once more Neo- These again are nothing more than you belief. This is how you see things. This post don't bother me much" , your one above how ever dose . You have finally shown who you are".

 

[Luce NDs]

Airclean-post.....
Here we are once more Neo- These again are nothing more than you belief. This is how you see things. This post don't bother me much" , your one above how ever dose . You have finally shown who you are".

@ airclean ... pay attention to the civil winds ...

 

[Neo]

Airclean-post.....
Here we are once more Neo- These again are nothing more than you belief. This is how you see things. This post don't bother me much" , your one above how ever dose . You have finally shown who you are".

Hmm... and who am I exactly?

 

[Luce NDs]

Hmm... and who am I exactly?

Join us in the interim space of chaos ... tis the greatest mixup you've ever heard ... orange swings supported from the greens ...

Makes no sense? Have you looked at life as it now is ? Seems like crap to 85 - 99% of humanity !

None is happy ... particularly the rich and powerful ... supporting Harold Blooms observation on unsatisfied mind ... thus excessive screwing about ...

 

[airclean33]

The thing about doctrines like Satan and eternal damnation is that people are much more intelligent and much more informed these days to accep t such a preposterous doctrine. The unjustness and the unfairness of the whole doctrine presents some serious reservations.

--Airclean-post--
Hi Neo here you put your flag down hay" . If GOD is looking for smart people, there would not" be many who would' make it. I would think you would be near the front ,of the line . Possibly me an a few others here". So your One of these False Prophet's ,I have heard
about". How is your dad god doing. He didn't like me much ,I think he thought I would be scared. Neo Last line post--- The unjustness and the unfairness of the whole doctrine presents some serious reservations.

Aircleanpost-...You really have to stop throwing lines ,like this at me . It really takes a long time to get over laughing at you.

--Neo --post-...
There are some very good explanations as to why the Bible speaks of hell as a destination for those who fall short of perfection, but without the doctrine of rein carnation the Church's ideas on this subject simply don't make sense.

--Airclean--post---
First Neo no one earns there way into heaven ",You see YahShua The Christ" dose that for us. I think may be you have it upside down, you see you do earn your way into Hell". What you post makes no sense at all. Have you noted" your dad makes the same mistake?


--Neo--post--....
I'm not sure about all of the facts in this following article, but I do believe it was the early Church that removed the doctrine of reincarnation from Christianity: Reincarnation: The Church’s Biggest Lie. As a result of this lie the Church has needed to perform illogical doctrinal contortions in order to work around it.

--Airclean--post--...
Oh yes ,I am sure you don't know all the Facts. I think myself it was Christ who pointed out . Once to live , then to die. Unless you wish to go all the way back to Gen. Then you will fined it was GOD who said to Adam , he would not live forever , for He would take His Spirit out, and Humankind would turn back to dust from were he came. Oh I am sorry you wouldn't understand this ". Do you mean by the church ", The beginning with the Apostles, who told us, those like you, were coming? Also to look out for you?

--Neo--post--.....
Some of my thoughts re this idea that only Christians go to heaven while all others burn:

A single life of indiscretion can put your eternal soul at risk of eternal damnation? We are far too weak of a species to be given that kind of responsibility. Doesn't God know this?

--Airclean--post--...
Are you really saying you know,more than GOD"?

Neo--post--......
A single life born in poverty surely would not provide the same opportunities to become a good little Christian. Surely God knows this.

A single life born in a Hindu or a Buddhist community is not likely to become a born again Christian. So then what? The answer is simple: if you are a Hindu then be a Hindu, if you are a Buddhist then be a Buddhist, and if you are a Christian then be a Christian. As long as we live with love in our hearts then we are on the right path.

Airclean--post--....
Why would Christ or GOD", want Buddhist or Hindu's to die? You can read ..
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Jhn 3:17 For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.

Jhn 3:18 He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God

-- Neo --POST--.....

It doesn't matter "what" religion or non-religion one adheres to. But it does matter "how" that person lives the life they were given, because through "sincerity of spirit", "honesty of mind", and at least some degree of "detachment", we can follow the path of least resistance towards salvation. No religion needed.

--Airclean--post---BULL----.

--Neo--post--.....
What do you think religious leaders would think of this philosophy? I'm sure most of them wouldn't like it at all since it circumvents what they've spent a lifetime promoting. Attachments, even to ideologies, can become millstones once they outlive their expiration date.

--Airclean--post--....
Just wondering, how many religious leaders are we talking about. I have NO mill stone Neo.
In fact we are sett free" from that kind of Belief' by Yahshua The Christ. AIRCLEAN33 -A CHILD OF GOD.

 

[Neo]

--Airclean--post--....
Just wondering, how many religious leaders are we talking about. I have NO mill stone Neo.
In fact we are sett free" from that kind of Belief' by Yahshua The Christ. AIRCLEAN33 -A CHILD OF GOD.

So my true colours show because I'm suggesting that one can be of any religion and even of no religion to gain salvation? Fair enough, that's what I believe.

But know this: nobody, not one single soul has ever been saved by theology. Our belief systems are just the means, the way, the path which we live our life. Show me one place in the Bible where Jesus says one has to adhere to a specific religion to be saved. If anything, he rebelled against the religion of the day. Salvation comes from how we believe, not what. I believe Jesus taught this when he said things like this: "for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also". No specific belief system needed, just a sincere and loving heart.

Airclean, you are Christian and therefore it's the place you should be; being a new born Christian makes perfect sense for you. Others, however, walk a different path. If we walk our paths with love in hearts and respect for our fellow human beings then, while these paths may be different, they will all lead to the centre. I see nothing in the teachings of the Christ that say different.

Millstones are created when we dogmatically hang on to old and outdated doctrines and ideologies. Take flat-earthers, for instance. With all the many ways we can prove the Earth is not flat, they dogmatically hang onto their old ideology and say otherwise. I'm not saying you're a flat-farther, it's just an example of an old and outdated belief that becomes a millstone. We're living at a crossroad in history today where the old age is passing away quickly and the new age is upon us. This is the reason for all the strife in the world today. Walk gently your path and don't judge others for what they believe, for you really don't know who walks with Christ and who doesn't. That's not a judgement for you or I to make.

 

[Waterfall]

There's nobody good enough for heaven.

 

[Luce NDs]

Listened an article on CBC about cults ... they mentioned a lot of white washing ... kind a flaky when you ponder how deep it can pile ... the flakes!

If temperature and humidity are right if can be shaped ... into white houses ... by rites in northern territory unless the ice man comes south ...

 

[airclean33]

So my true colours show because I'm suggesting that one can be of any religion and even of no religion to gain salvation? Fair enough, that's what I believe.

Airclean--post--.....No Neo that you don't understand it is not my fault. The Christ was teaching them what GOD" was saying. They didn't like it so they wanted to kill Him".

--Neo--post--........
But know this: nobody, not one single soul has ever been saved by theology. Our belief systems are just the means, the way, the path which we live our life. Show me one place in the Bible where Jesus says one has to adhere to a specific religion to be saved. If anything, he rebelled against the religion of the day. Salvation comes from how we believe, not what. I believe Jesus taught this when he said things like this: "for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also". No specific belief system needed, just a sincere and loving heart.

--Airclean--post--.......
--Neo to disobey DODS word is a sin. To except, GODS Living Word is Salvation. When you do this you are no longer ,under Law". You will now be a Child", of GOD". Apart of His" Family. Your choice except GODS" Son The living Word, or not."

--Neo --post-.......
Airclean, you are Christian and therefore it's the place you should be; being a new born Christian makes perfect sense for you. Others, however, walk a different path. If we walk our paths with love in hearts and respect for our fellow human beings then, while these paths may be different, they will all lead to the centre. I see nothing in the teachings of the Christ that say different.

--Airclean--post-......Even if I show you ,I don't think you can understand Neo . Your to far gone. There is but one way to GOD" ,it is not your way".

--Neo -post-.....
Millstones are created when we dogmatically hang on to old and outdated doctrines and ideologies. Take flat-earthers, for instance. With all the many ways we can prove the Earth is not flat, they dogmatically hang onto their old ideology and say otherwise. I'm not saying you're a flat-farther, it's just an example of an old and outdated belief that becomes a millstone. We're living at a crossroad in history today where the old age is passing away quickly and the new age is upon us. This is the reason for all the strife in the world today. Walk gently your path and don't judge others for what they believe, for you really don't know who walks with Christ and who doesn't. That's not a judgement for you or I to make.

--Airclean--post-- GOD' told us in the beginning the earth was not flat , nor were the planets. You have but to look to the sky, in any full Moon". If you mean by crossroads that The Christ will soon return .Then in that case ,you have it right. Yes neo I do know who walks with Christ "most of the times . how ever I may take longer in some cases as with you". I am not the Judge others though". GOD will do that , but I will point out to others who follow . Just who you are.

 

[Neo]

Listened an article on CBC about cults ... they mentioned a lot of white washing ... kind a flaky when you ponder how deep it can pile ... the flakes!

Yes, as mentioned above, I believe that religion isn't totally required to learn, practice and perfect the "art of living". One of the reasons I believe this is because of the very fact that humans beings have been on this earth for, at the very least, about two hundred thousand years. Yet religions, at least the ones we know of, have only been with us for a few of thousand years. And all these religions will tell you, both the eastern and the western, that only they contain the keys to Heaven or Nirvana or Valhalla, or what have you. What about all those souls who lived before these religions? (And this is where the concept of reincarnation plays a huge role). How can any man-made institution bear such responsibility for the eternal welfare of our eternal Souls? At best, imho, they can only point the way. So "yes", we've been white washed and lied to into believing any one particular religion is the one and only path. Jesus himself said he had "other sheep who are not of this fold", so how can Christians insist that their religion only contains the keys to heaven?

Our priests, ministers, rabbis, clerics, gurus, etc, all say that their religions points the way to salvation. I understand this, it's human nature. But the real "art of living", imho, lay in the area of perfecting, or at least attempting to perfect, the body, the mind and the spirit to the best of our ability. This is the real "at-one-ment" that allowed Jesus to say "my Father and I are One" and to promise that "thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven".

Faith is the first step, I get that. And then comes grace, where as we take one step forward towards God then God then takes two steps towards us. I get this too, we can't do this on our own. It's only through the alignment with Soul within that we begin to walk the path. So grace therefore enables faith to flower forth into full bloom. It's this "flowering forth" that is our "works". This is our attempt to "be perfect". The keys to heaven must be turned seven times, says an old book, and with each turn of the key a new level of wisdom is revealed.

Jesus said “I am the way and the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father but by Me”. Was he referring to the Christian religion that would follow in his name? Or could this mean that he embodied, in his very being, the love of the heart to such an extent that, regardless of the religion we are born into, his message that the way of the heart needs to be followed in order to approach the Father is universal? Love knows no religious boundaries.

I don't expect many here to agree with me. I understand that, but it's how I feel and I'm definitely not alone in this thinking. Many here in the WCafe are, imho, are blinded by their attachment to an old way of thinking. And so are the local churches around me. They don't preach anything close to universalism. But one day, I believe, they will. One day the church will be humble enough to let go of the old dogmas they've held since medieval times. It'll probably take a vision from the Christ Himself for the church to open her eyes for she has suffered from a glamour too long, a glamour that only church doctrine and dogma contain the keys to salvation. This glamour, I believe, could not be further from the truth.