Resurrection: Does Your Minister/Church Preach What You Believe?

[Mendalla]

Are we saying worship and spirituality is the same thing?

They are related but not the same, I would say. Worship should be spiritual and worshipping can be part of being spiritual, but you can be spiritual and not engage in worship (e.g. Taoists and many Buddhist traditions do not "worship" in the Christian sense).

And, recall, I do not define "spiritual" as meaning a literal belief in a "spirit world" but as a focus on being part of something bigger and on our relationship to others and existence.

 

[Mendalla]

Spirituality at its best, I feel, requires more than one person in the kayak reflecting on God together.

Many contemplatives in many traditions might disagree with you. They would agree that community has its place, but not that it is "spirituality at its best". Individual contemplation and experience has an equal place with communal worship in such traditions.

 

[Neo]

What do you believe about the Resurrection of Jesus?

That resurrection can be seen everywhere in nature and that Christ exemplified that nature with His own life as both a promise and a guide to what the rest of the Human Race can do also.

 

[revjohn]

Paul seems to be saying it will be a spiritual body here which seems to agree with John:
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 15:35-49 - New International Version

But I personally could agree, that the resurrection catalyzes in the hearts and minds of those who experience it, making it a very real event which you describe by using the heart as a metaphor as one resting place where we hold this information.

I think that the root core of our problem is an inherent duality which treats spiritual and physical as mutually exclusive.

I am inclined to think that the incarnation is meant to harmonize the two rather than set them at odds.

Our bodies are not fleshly prisons holding our spirits in bondage (or at the very least they are not intended to be such) the are gifts by which we may live and move and enjoy our being in God to the fullest.

And the resurrection is gutted of any meaning if it is not experienced and does not transform.

 

[revjohn]

The sentiment of the meme is too shallow.

If you are anywhere engaged in doing something while thinking about something else what you are is distracted. That is neither religion nor spiritual it is a lack of discipline.

 

[Jaebius]

Many contemplatives in many traditions might disagree with you. They would agree that community has its place, but not that it is "spirituality at its best". Individual contemplation and experience has an equal place with communal worship in such traditions.

They are free to feel that way Mendalla. I stated clearly that I was offering my own personal feeling.

 

[airclean33]

that would fit

Hi Brother what about a Christ who died fully in the flesh. Was raised 3 days later. But when Marry, went to touch Him, He said NO " for I have not yet ascended, to the FATHER". John20:7 , So The Christ "had not gone into Heaven yet." He would then be holding all the sins, on those who have come to Him". Also the sins of the thief that He Saved". No sin can go into GODS Kingdom" . So the next time we see Him in the word. He has on His knew Body."

 

[Jaebius]

Can you explain why Jae?

Not in depth at this time. Too little sleep last night. It has to do with my belief that we are all created in the image of God who is himself a loving community of persons.

Here you say you 'feel' that more than one person needs to be present in order to reflect on god.

In truth that is not what I offered Kay.

What does the extra person add?

Not extra, other. They reflect back the love to the first person. They also synegize with the first person new hopes and dynamism.

Does what you feel trump what someone else thinks?

Indeed not. I am only one. I sense the need for dialogue.[/quote]

 

[Neo]

In every one that I can remember Jesus seems to appear and disappear into thin air. Can a physical body do that?

Yes, why not? In theory it's very possible since what we consider to be "physical" is really just a conglomeration of energies. And all it takes to alter energy is a different kind of energy.

 

[Mendalla]

All it takes to alter energy is a different kind of energy.

And a very, very, very large amount of that energy. How do you think a human body is going to generate sufficient energy to change every atom in its structure simultaneously ? A particle accelerator sucks up power like a sponge just to smash two protons together to convert them to energy, let alone converting the billions upon billions of sub-atomic particles in a human body. We probably do not generate enough energy on this entire planet to do that. You're probably talking fusion on a solar scale or even larger.

If you want to say "Jesus did it because he was God", that's fine. But don't toss around half-assed science to try to justify how God does it. Just accept that you're proposing something supernatural that requires faith to accept and leave it at that.

 

[Neo]

And a very, very, very large amount of that energy. How do you think a human body is going to generate sufficient energy to change every atom in its structure simultaneously ? A particle accelerator sucks up power like a sponge just to smash two protons together to convert them to energy, let alone converting the billions upon billions of sub-atomic particles in a human body. We probably do not generate enough energy on this entire planet to do that. You're probably talking fusion on a solar scale or even larger.

If you want to say "Jesus did it because he was God", that's fine. But don't toss around half-assed science to try to justify how God does it. Just accept that you're proposing something supernatural that requires faith to accept and leave it at that.

Can "we" do this? No, not a chance. But I'm not talking about an ordinary human being here. I'm saying that a Master of Masters could, in theory, raise the vibrations of a form which would make the atoms disappear. We don't know where and how such a Being could direct such energy from, I'm just saying in theory it would be possible.

 

[Jaebius]

And a very, very, very large amount of that energy. How do you think a human body is going to generate sufficient energy to change every atom in its structure simultaneously ? A particle accelerator sucks up power like a sponge just to smash two protons together to convert them to energy, let alone converting the billions upon billions of sub-atomic particles in a human body. We probably do not generate enough energy on this entire planet to do that. You're probably talking fusion on a solar scale or even larger.

If you want to say "Jesus did it because he was God", that's fine. But don't toss around half-assed science to try to justify how God does it. Just accept that you're proposing something supernatural that requires faith to accept and leave it at that.

I believe that Jesus created everything that exists including energy, so I trust he can generate about as much energy as he wants.

 

[Mendalla]

I believe that Jesus created everything that exists including energy, so I trust he can generate about as much energy as he wants.

Emphasis on "I believe" of course.

 

[blackbelt1961]

Hi Brother what about a Christ who died fully in the flesh. Was raised 3 days later. But when Marry, went to touch Him, He said NO " for I have not yet ascended, to the FATHER". John20:7 , So The Christ "had not gone into Heaven yet." He would then be holding all the sins, on those who have come to Him". Also the sins of the thief that He Saved". No sin can go into GODS Kingdom" . So the next time we see Him in the word. He has on His knew Body."

what about it?

 

[Mendalla]

Can "we" do this? No, not a chance. But I'm not talking about an ordinary human being here. I'm saying that a Master of Masters could, in theory, raise the vibrations of a form which would make the atoms disappear. We don't know where and how such a Being could direct such energy from, I'm just saying in theory it would be possible.

Not a scientific theory though, unless you can produce such a Master and propose an experiment to test that ability. Right now, it's as much belief as Jae's or blackbelt's. That's not wrong. You are entitled to your beliefs. It just makes the point that dusting up your faith statements with scientific words and ideas doesn't change the fact that they are faith statements.

 

[blackbelt1961]

Can "we" do this? No, not a chance. But I'm not talking about an ordinary human being here. I'm saying that a Master of Masters could, in theory, raise the vibrations of a form which would make the atoms disappear. We don't know where and how such a Being could direct such energy from, I'm just saying in theory it would be possible.

kinda like beam me up Scotty

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

My unorthodox allegorical take is that we are supposed to be the risen body of Christ, through the Holy Spirit and it's subsequent fruits. And we will know when Christ has returned when that comes to fruition in humanity. It's more of a collective spiritual and physical body consisting of many people - eventually, all, if you're a universalist. Maybe later, on this plane of existence/ corner of the multiverse...maybe another. We will know only when we've arrived. And, when that happens there will be no need for religion.

That is not necessarily my pastor's belief - he's a recovering fundamentalist baptist who is now a non-denominational universalist - thinks of some things more literally... but we've discussed it and he's not opposed to the way I have come to understand it. I'm welcome anyway.

I think focusing on physical resurrection is a distraction from the message "Love one another". I could choose to believe it but it wouldn't help anything if that was my focus. Doubting Thomas needed physical evidence....I'm fine with what I see as the essence of the story. I choose to believe that Jesus is resurrected, and returns...via a more creative concept... by faith, hope, and love - abstracts that need no religion - just a common purpose of acting in the world with faith, hope, and love.

 

[Luce NDs]

When the lights go out at night ... tis amazing to see what shadows creep about ... w/o doubt ... due to natural drives !

This can get tyrannical ... by those wishing to control the light with things going on of political darkness ... this was portrayed in the Post .. and excellent d'rahma ti sation ... sort of like some enlightened people can really act like they don't have dark desires to shaft what they believe are lesser ... then the other is sated ...

Some desires should be respected and appreciated as dangerous as that Rod Neigh Danger Field ... pastoral awakenings?

Balls can disappear there ...

 

[Neo]

kinda like beam me up Scotty

View attachment 1262

Yea kind of.. but I was thinking it was more like how a tuning fork can affect the frequency of another tuning fork.

“If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration.”
~ Nikola Tesla

 

[Neo]

Not a scientific theory though, unless you can produce such a Master and propose an experiment to test that ability. Right now, it's as much belief as Jae's or blackbelt's. That's not wrong. You are entitled to your beliefs. It just makes the point that dusting up your faith statements with scientific words and ideas doesn't change the fact that they are faith statements.

It's still a belief based on the fact that all matter is energy and nothing is really solid.