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God appears very violent and harsh in the Old Testament and many people have a big Problem with that ----

How could a Loving God act so harsh and violent ---

If you read Judges ----you see there was no Central leadership in place and people were left to do what they thought was right for them ===

Judges 17:6​

6 In those days there was no king in Israel; every man did what was right in his own eyes.


I say -----The Heart of mankind is evil ---so this signifies what happens when you have a society with evil hearts who are left to do as they please -----with no restraints to keep them in any kind of order ----you have like a river of evil flowing everywhere with no Dam to stop it ----the sinful evil and wicked society just kept Rebelling against God -----

There was so much Violence in the world ----God had to respond and so He did with harsh --violent Righteous Judgment -----

This is Moral Evil being judged by Physical Evil ----this shows the seriousness of rebellion and sin against God ----

From Google
The Old Testament contains numerous accounts where God utilizes natural disasters, diseases, and military conflicts as expressions of judgment--

Today WE See Moral Evil happening all over this world ----and God is Responding with Righteous Judgment ----Plagues ----Tornadoes---- Earthquakes ---Volcano eruptions ----Floods ---- Hurricanes ---- etc ----using His Righteous Judgment to shake people awake and know their sins and rebellion against Him have consequences ----

and Believe me this is just a Taste of what is coming in the future as He again pours His Wrath out on this wicked earth ----
The OT, unsafe, reveals both God's justice and humanity's brokenness. The NT reveals that God's final answer to sin was the cross, where justice and mercy met together!

Believers must be cautious about pointing to every natural disaster and declaring, "This is God's judgment on those people!"

The most Christlike response, unsafe, is to mourn with those who suffer. Help our neighbours! POINT PEOPLE TO THE HOPE AND MERCY FOUND IN JESUS
 
Believers must be cautious about pointing to every natural disaster and declaring, "This is God's judgment on those people!"
it is God's judgment on thia Wicked cursed world and it shows the unbelieving People that they need a Saviour and that everything they worked for and all the STUFF they gathered in their lives and held in high esteem over God is fruitless and can be gone in an instance and who then do they rely on ----their life's gathering is just dust -----and they sit crying as their life vanishes before them ------

Who do they go to with their morning -----believers can only try and comfort them ---God is the only one who can Help them get through their great Sorrow ----and restore them ----

And if you don't believe that then -----OH MY !!!!!!!!!
 
Disasters just are ... because ... it is without reason! Who wishes to reason when un reason is more pleasurable to those in the hedonist gathering ... to do distasteful things to the remainder of the population paradigm ... how the left evolved from rejection of all the right ... it just isn't so said one cosmological wanderer! Thus we mosey along time ... such missals are contained by myth so the determined can't observe the hypothetical ... it is subtle ... often cutting as a Celtic Sword Dance when parental threads are gone ... could've been the Y's Key ... or the Jinn ... but it was quite a party until it went down ...

Consequential? Perhaps ... I'm not supposed to speak of it ... bothersome, worrying and all that ... Anne? Mores ...
 
I've always liked the process approach myself. God's power isn't to change the world unilaterally, but to change the hearts of people to get them to change the world. God does this through lures, things that inspire us to do better and be better. So God's approach to disease isn't to miraculously make it all go away, it's to inspire compassionate, caring health professionals to care for those suffering and scientists to try to mitigate or eliminate disease through things like cures and vaccines. Why this limit on God's power? God wants free, loving people living in relationship with God and the universe, not robots controlled by God's every whim. God wants us to choose to be better, to choose to make a better world, not just shove it down our throats. Christ is a lure, but not the only one. In the end, anything that brings us closer to a caring, compassionate effort to make a better world pleases God, not believing the right thing or following the right religion.

And that's enough heresy for this thread today, I guess. :giggle:
Truth, Mendalla, must produce love. Love must reflect truth.

The goal's reconciliation with God that overflows into love for neighbour.

I think Christ's the whole story's Author, the One through whom every genuine act of grace, beauty, truth and COMPASSION ultimately finds its source.

I do appreciate that both of us are trying to defend a God who's genuinely good in suffering's face.

That, Mendalla, is a conversation worth having.
 
Jae, you assume some guy is in charge. You say this guy made sure some savior, who may or may not be this guy as well, suffered/died/slept off a long weekend. This suffering, being a 3 day ordeal, is somehow comforting to those who experience loss. Some losses being catastrophic and young or before their time.

How is any of the above believable or comforting?

Unsafe suggests this is in retribution or a form of warning for people not believing "properly," which I think most here would agree is asinine and evil. Maybe you do as well, though your theological positions seem to shift depending on who you are looking to provoke on a given day, or, to be charitable, perhaps simply which religious leader you spoke to last.

I don't respond to you or unsafe often anymore. I've finally come to the understanding that there is little point. Except that every now and then, in case someone new pokes around, there should be a voice that points out that these beliefs are untenable at best and become disgusting as they move toward what unsafe insists.
Christianity's claim, chansen, is that God's present even in the places where reason fails.

The Christian hope's the conviction that suffering and death don't get the final word.

Honestly, I'd agree with you that any theo that uses tragedy as a weapon against unbelievers becomes morally grotesque quickly.

I think the answer to suffering's God's mercy, which's bigger than our grasping. Our certainty! THANKFULLY EVEN OUR ARGUMENTS
 
WHy do you see this as a contradiction? MAybe both are true.
I don't see what Jaebius said as a contradiction -----I see it as him being confused as being confused as to first the scriptures he uses to prove that the Spirit opens the heart which he quotes wrong ----- for starters -----

This is Jaebius's Quote
The biblical foundation, unsafe, is Acts 16:14 for the Spirit opening the heart

This scripture doesn't say the Spirit opens the heart -----it Says the Lord opens the heart --

Jesus is Lord -----the Holy Spirit is never referred to as Lord in Scripture ----


this is the Scripture
New International Version
One of those listening was a woman from the city of Thyatira named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth. She was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message.

-------Heart here refers to the Mind ------if you do the research

Luke 24---Jesus speaking here
44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.

From Bible Hub

New Testament

1. Mind Opened
• Luke 24:45: “Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures.” The risen Christ must act for understanding to occur.

I say -----God the Father is the only person who changes the Hardened heart to a soft heart ----and that is scriptural -----and He does this by and through His Grace -----
 
Why suffering exists

From google

We Live in A Fallen World: Scripture explains that suffering entered the human experience because of sin and rebellion in a broken world (Romans 5:12)

read all yourselves I just posted part of the Article here


2. Natural Disasters are a Foretaste of Judgement​

Natural disasters are always a foretaste of what the final judgment will be like. They are a picture, a portrait, and a preview of what is to come upon those who do not find refuge in the only Saviour, Jesus Christ (2 Peter 2:5-6).

Both the floods and the fires of Genesis were a foretaste of God’s eternal judgment— warnings of what must come again to a world that reject God’s salvation
(Matt 24:37-38; 2 Pet 3:5-7). Jesus describes disasters, including wars, famines, and earthquakes as “the beginning of the birth pains” as we wait for His return (Mark 13:8).

The writer of Revelation sees such catastrophic events as the beginnings of God’s wrath (Rev 6:1-17).

Far from proceeding from a harsh and malevolent God, natural disasters are a reminder that God’s forgiveness and grace are still available to those who repent and believe.

After all, because natural disasters are a shadow of Judgment Day, God uses them to compel us to trust in Him before it’s too late.


3. Natural Disasters are God’s Call to Repent​

In the West, we are prone to succumb to the illusion that we are the masters of our fates and the captains of our souls.

Natural disasters are a sobering wake-up call that nothing could be further from the truth.


As C.S. Lewis writes in The Problem of Pain:

God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pain: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world.
[1]

Each time a calamity strikes, we are reminded of the glorious truth that God is in control, and we are not.

When God strips away our security and comfort, we recognise just how fragile our lives are.

Yet, God does not do this arbitrarily.

He does it to alarm us of our need to repent of our sin and trust in Him.


Jesus gets to the heart of our issue—our own heart.

Our response to disasters shouldn’t be to try to work out the specifics of who’s to blame. Rather we should see all disasters as reminders of own feeble estate and humbly acknowledge Jesus Christ as our only Saviour.
Natural disasters remind us that we are living in a fallen world; that we ourselves are mortal, and that there is a greater judgment to come. By God’s grace,

He allows these tragic events to afflict our world so that we would recognise our desperate need for salvation.
Natural disasters, unsafe, remind us how much creation's groaning for redemption (Romans 8:22-23) and how desperately we need Christ's return to make all things new.

What moves me most, unsafe, is the ask in suffering. God's drawing people to Himself, showing that our security's to be found in Christ alone.

Christianity's final word's redemption. Restoration! JESUS'S GLORY
 
Here is one for you all -----

Do Non Believers call out to God in a crisis or when Disaster strikes -----

According to this definitely some do ------Surprise you ??????


This article is more than 8 years old

Non-believers turn to prayer in a crisis, poll finds​


For many non-believers, it is an instinctive response to a crisis: “Please, God.” So perhaps it should not be surprising that a new survey has found that one in five adults pray despite saying they are not religious.

Among the non-religious, personal crisis or tragedy is the most common reason for praying, with one in four saying they pray to gain comfort or feel less lonely.
Find this beautiful, unsafe.

In those desperate moments, people are revealing the human condition's reality.

We were created for relationship with God. When life's illusions of control crumble, people reach toward Him.

The real surprise, unsafe, would be if fallen, finite, vulnerable humans NEVER cried out to God when facing tragedy.

The question's why non-believers pray in a crisis. I'd argue it's because God's fingerprints are still on the hearts of the people who deny Him
 
Same post, same reply:


Essentially: Not all non-believers, plus impossible to quantify, plus Christians lie about things like this.
 
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