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Pan Theism ... maybe a flat out situation when thee and thei interact/counteract? Thus the cranked off shoots ... a literary displacement given all the lies that obscure reality? Thus an E.I. or something there than what was dreamt up ... dis propriated situations when one takes advantage?
 
paradox3 said:
Although I recall us discussing whether this is intervention of a different sort. Perhaps callng us to righteousness etc. rather than pulling the puppet strings.
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You're thinking of process and it's "lures" there which is a theology that incorporates panentheism but not all panentheists believe in process. Some schools and interpretations of Hinduism, for instance, can be read as panentheist but not necessarily process (it's a dicey reading in any case since panentheism is a Western philosophical term and applying it to the complexity that is Indian religion can be fraught with peril).
 
GordW said:
AS I understand it panentheism says that all things are in God, not that God is in all things. Which reminds me both of Tillich's "the ground of all being" and Paul's "the GOd in who we live and move and have our being"
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And if God is that extensive ... imagine the misconceptions where the perspective was lost ... thus nothing left but the essence ... even a phantom of the initiate! Thus it always restarts ... but we can never be sure because of uncertainty theory that causes the certain bunch considerable insecurity ... because were out there beyond the known ...
 
Mendalla said:
You're thinking of process and it's "lures" there which is a theology that incorporates panentheism but not all panentheists believe in process. Some schools and interpretations of Hinduism, for instance, can be read as panentheist but not necessarily process (it's a dicey reading in any case since panentheism is a Western philosophical term and applying it to the complexity that is Indian religion can be fraught with peril).
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I was taught (or it was attempted) that philosophy was the greatest of sin towards what were developed as idols ... thus a stretch of -isms! Such things breed in frying pans like flat bred ... all laterally laid out ...
 
So panentheists say "all creation is in God". Some panentheists also say 'God is in all things".

Going both ways makes the most sense to me. But, hey, I have never studied philosophy.

And process theology could overlap with panentheism. Or not.

The most important question for me is how can any of this be used to inform my faith as a Christian?
 
paradox3 said:
And process theology could overlap with panentheism.
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It doesn't overlap with panentheism, it is a variety of panentheism. Charles Hartshorne, one of the original process theologians, explicitly demonstrated that process is necessarily a form of panentheism (in a book that, weirdly enough, I have a copy of though it's a real bear to read so I have never read it all). So all process is panentheist but not all panentheism is process.
 
Mendalla said:
It doesn't overlap with panentheism, it is a variety of panentheism. Charles Hartshorne, one of the original process theologians, explicitly demonstrated that process is necessarily a form of panentheism (in a book that, weirdly enough, I have a copy of though it's a real bear to read so I have never read it all). So all process is panentheist but not all panentheism is process.
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One must learn to read all things for good or bad so one learns by themselfs the divine split ... it is dizzying, daz zing of life! Few believe how shocking it is when seeing the entire perspective ... then on begins to know ...
 
Hinduism is not a religion in the same sense as Christianity. It is more like a community of religions. Buddhism is more a philosophy than s religion though several branches serm more like a religion than a philosophy. The Buddhists of Myanmar and Sri Lanka behave like religious followers in their actions against Muslims.

The Bahai' people I have known are wonderful people and persecuted by all the religions in the East and Middle East.

As a science person, I discovered there is a lot of mystery about science. The more I learn, the more I realize I do not know. Epigenetics just blows my mind away. The discoveries through the James Webb telescope seem very disruptive.

If it is so hard to understand and know the material, how can we expect to know the immanent but not material?
 
jimkenney12 said:
Buddhism is more a philosophy than s religion though several branches serm more like a religion than a philosophy. The Buddhists of Myanmar and Sri Lanka behave like religious followers in their actions against Muslims.
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To maybe frame that a bit more positively, when I visited the mountain in China sacred to the boddhisatva Guanyin (herself a purposed ancient Chinese deity), there were women climbing up the stairs to the temple at the top, pausing to bow every two (or something like that) steps. It was a pilgrimage related to Guanyin's role in fertility, which pretty clearly goes back to pre-Buddhist times. She is also the boddhisatva/goddess of mercy. Definitely a religious event.

And your last sentence kind of implies that "religious followers" are somehow inherently intolerant which is not what I think you really believe, being one yourself. You probably wanted "certain" or "certain kinds of" in front of "religious" there. Agree, though, that their intolerance is quite out of keeping relative to what you usually see from Buddhists and Buddhist teaching. As with religious intolerance elsewhere, this seems to be the result of religion letting itself get entangled with nationalist and/or ethnocentrist politics (c.f. Christian nationalism in the US and its ties to White nationalism).
 
A Christian Ed resource about Islam: The Jesus Fatwah, put together by the Living the Questions group, was very informative in our congregation.
 
Given who made it, I'll assume they had Muslim sources involved in its creation, but I would suggest doing what the UU fellowship did: build a relationship with your local mosque. Maybe get the imam to speak to a service (after all, their communal prayer is on Friday so they might be free) or other church gathering.
 
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Could both sides communicate? I've fouind the urge is towards one-way ... then you have to pass it through none sense ... a type of meataphor or satyr!, an ass 've a item to deal with --- Cervantes!
 
We did a Living The Questions series called "The Jesus Fatwah", which was very informative, especially illuminating a very liberal edge of Islam. At the conclusion of that series, we did mount a "field trip" to our local mosque, which turns out to be quite conservative. For example, our spiritual leader is the Rev Dr Susan E, who is married to Joe M___ At the conservative mosque, by default, she becomes Mrs. Joe. There's a more liberal mosque out in Oro Medonte that we have not visited.
 
I am not even clear on how liberal or conservative London Mosque, the biggest one is. I do know they are often the first religious group to step up when tragedy strikes in the community and, mercifully, the community paid them back beautifully when they were hit with tragedy (the murders of four members a couple years ago).

I have been to the smaller "Islamic Centre" run by the Ismailis for a funeral. Even there, in a fairly liberal branch of Islam, men and women sat separately so I think the words "liberal" and "conservative" mean something different in Islam than in Christianity.
 
Well, I'll tell you, there was a presenter in this LTQ series whose name I do not recall, who was without a hijab, had flowing black curly hair, loose, and was wearing a dress that might best be described as provocative - red satin, nice decolletage.

And of course there is my favourite Muslim Lesbian: Irshad Manji.
 
I have heard Raheel Raza speak. She is a liberal Muslim who doesn't wear hijab. She is very engaging with a good sense of humour.
 
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