Observer Article: "Defunct WonderCafe site is reborn"

[chansen]

I wish they had quoted me on more, and included Mendalla in the list of founders. I was the one who was interviewed because I was the one promoting it on Facebook, and if you ask me what I thought when the closure of WC1 was announced, I'll tell you that I considered it an opportunity to start a new site, outside of the control of the United Church of Canada, who do not seem to have any plan when it comes to social media, have an aversion to communication, and who have yet to produce a decent website.

Technologically, Wondercafe.ca was not a good site when it opened. UnitedFuture.ca, is so bad, even Stephen Booth stopped posting there.

The Wondercafe forums were a numbers success because there was a major advertising campaign and they managed to hit a critical mass of active members. The hard part is getting a forum started. Once it's running, it can almost run itself. They succeeded because they dumped a lot of money into getting it going, not because it was a great website or forum.

I see the United Church as being fundamentally broken. Everyone is pulling in different directions. "Social media" is something they want to jump on, but when you open yourself up to discussion, you may not like what people have to say, and I don't think that ever occurred to them.

If there is a plan behind the social media strategy of the United Church of Canada, it has been well-hidden.

 

[Pinga]

What risks? Did you see any oher denominationss performing such ineresting and challening ads? Have you so quickly forgotten what brought individuals to wondercafe?
Do you remember the early days?

How easy it is to criticize the dregs of wondercafe that are left, as funding decreased, and the team tried to sustain.

I would rather celebrate the gift of risk, of trialing ads that received national attention, prime time news in fact.

 

[Pinga]

Chansen, i am so sick of that line.

The United Church of Canada was absolutely clear about what the forum would be about.
There was NO issue from the leadership of the forum conversations, etc.

For f***s, sake, to be blunt. You are wrong.

 

[Jaebius]

We all like to feel that the main parts of the original Wondercafe were the forums. Then again - television viewers like to feel that the main parts of the broadcasts are the programs.

 

[Pinga]

We all like to feel that the main parts of the original Wondercafe were the forums. Then again - television viewers like to feel that the main parts of the broadcasts are the programs.

Wondercafe was a very small part of the Emerging Spirit campaign. I don't feel your analogy works.

 

[Jaebius]

Wondercafe was a very small part of the Emerging Spirit campaign. I don't feel your analogy works.

As I recall it - Wondercafe had an online store attached to it - and also a church directory. Thus it seems the real latent point of the site may have been consumerism.

 

[Pinga]

PR. Jae.

The wondercafe site was only one piece of a much bigger program.
One small part of the site was the link.
The links to the online store came much later...so, no..it wasn't consumerism.

thanks for playing, though, wouldn't be the same without some unqualified and incomplete ciriticism from you.
Glad you got to enjoy as many years as you did, though, for nothing.

 

[Jaebius]

PR. Jae.

The wondercafe site was only one piece of a much bigger program.
One small part of the site was the link.
The links to the online store came much later...so, no..it wasn't consumerism.

thanks for playing, though, wouldn't be the same without some unqualified and incomplete ciriticism from you.
Glad you got to enjoy as many years as you did, though, for nothing.

At what point was the church directory attached to Wondercafe - or was it there right from the beginning?

 

[Pinga]

from the beginning

 

[Jaebius]

from the beginning

Ok - so there's your consumerism right there. The site existed to rope people into UCCanada congregations. I'm guessing that it didn't work - however - and so they pulled the plug.

 

[Pinga]

If that was the case, then there would have been draws to it, or plugs, there weren't.
The site wasn't pulled due to lack of people coming to the congregations from it.


Nice try, PR. Jae, though.

Again, glad hat you have enjoyed it at absolutely no cost to you for as many years as you have bashed it, and it fulfilled your need to be critical.

 

[Jaebius]

If that was the case, then there would have been draws to it, or plugs, there weren't.
The site wasn't pulled due to lack of people coming to the congregations from it.

So you say - nevertheless it's clear that at least one of the purposes of the Wondercafe site was to take people by the hand and escort them into UCCanada congregations.

Also - I've been thinking about your comment a little earlier in this thread as to the Wondercafe had only a small link to a UCCanada store. We'll - to continue my television analogy - commercial ad time is comparatively smaller than program time - yet advertisements are what television is really all about.

 

[Tabitha]

@Pr.Jae Why do you bite the hand that feeds you?
I enjoyed wondercafe-part of a larger project-funded by a bequest.
I appreciate wondercafe2 started by 3 folks with different perspectives but all generously donating their time for us.

 

[Jaebius]

@Pr.Jae Why do you bite the hand that feeds you?
I enjoyed wondercafe-part of a larger project-funded by a bequest.
I appreciate wondercafe2 started by 3 folks with different perspectives but all generously donating their time for us.

Overall - I did enjoy Wondercafe - and have really enjoyed Wondercafe2. I also have the feeling that the vast majority of those who participated on Wondercafe (and WC2) have enjoyed doing so.

All I am sharing here are my feelings as to why the UCCanada may have begun and then decided to close down the original Wondercafe. What I feel is that they closed it down because it was failing to meet their objectives of driving people into UCCanada congregations - and toward online purchases in a store.

 

[Pinga]

Jae

live in your dreamland.

I have little patience for fools. Right now, you are being one.

For others who read, I am not a fool either. Of course, I can picture a conversation along these lines in General Council staff. Hey, WonderCafe has all these folks, we could put a link to books available, etc on the site. We could put links after a crisis to show how they can support (after all these are caring folks and may want a link to do so). Someone might say, that ad revenue may be able to offset costs. Someone in a justice area might state it may also increase the amount of books read on topics which mattered to united church of canada. Shucks, it may have resuled in people reading lenten guides.....I am sure there are a zillion reasons that advertisements would be placed.

If we had traffic sufficient, I could see the wondercafe2 saying, would ad revenue be reasonable? If so, who would we submit ads from. Revenue could be used to offset costs, but also build a nest egg for proper focussed ads.

If such an action occurred, would you state that wondercafe2 was solely to drive revenue. No. The ad revenue would be to support wondercafe2.

 

[Jaebius]

Jae

live in your dreamland.

I have little patience for fools. Right now, you are being one.

For others who read, I am not a fool either. Of course, I can picture a conversation along these lines in General Council staff. Hey, WonderCafe has all these folks, we could put a link to books available, etc on the site. We could put links after a crisis to show how they can support (after all these are caring folks and may want a link to do so). Someone might say, that ad revenue may be able to offset costs. Someone in a justice area might state it may also increase the amount of books read on topics which mattered to united church of canada. Shucks, it may have resuled in people reading lenten guides.....I am sure there are a zillion reasons that advertisements would be placed.

If we had traffic sufficient, I could see the wondercafe2 saying, would ad revenue be reasonable? If so, who would we submit ads from. Revenue could be used to offset costs, but also build a nest egg for proper focussed ads.

If such an action occurred, would you state that wondercafe2 was solely to drive revenue. No. The ad revenue would be to support wondercafe2.

A major difference would be that those who own and manage Wondercafe2 don't have a network of worship centers they need to keep filling - nor a line of their own books and worship materials that they want to keep peddling.

 

[Pinga]

whatever.
Emerging spirit is much bigger than wondercafe.
Wondercafe is much bigger than he forum
The forum came long before ads.

Your logic is flawed; however, i'm not in the mood to play with you today.

 

[Jaebius]

whatever.
Emerging spirit is much bigger than wondercafe.
Wondercafe is much bigger than he forum
The forum came long before ads.

Your logic is flawed; however, i'm not in the mood to play with you today.

Not play - discussion. Some day I hope you will realize that traditional denominations - including - but not limited to - the UCCanada - are awash in consumerism - indeed have been kidnapped by it. Until that day then.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Really, Jae? Awash in consumerism?

I was the first to criticize the UCC about this move, but it's more about our inability to see into the future than about any "consumerist" tendencies. It seems to me that we all agree that we need to move away from our "bricks and mortar mansions to god" to ways of ministering to each other in a wired world, and wondercafe seemed to be emblematic of that move, but then, like the wind, we, the church, have abandoned it (presumably to indulge in more of our favourite activity - navel gazing). There are many things to admire about the UCC's congregationalist/bottom up governance model, but the serious windblowing that accompanies the triannual General Council makes us look like idiots to the world, at best.

 

[crazyheart]

whatever.
Emerging spirit is much bigger than wondercafe.
Wondercafe is much bigger than he forum
The forum came long before ads.

Your logic is flawed; however, i'm not in the mood to play with you today.

And I think Emerging Spirit was a failure, Pinga.

Half the churches didn't know what it was and the other half were led to the workshops and then they all fell by the wayside.

WonderCafe was the best part of Emerging Spirits and it is gone too. I would call the Emerging Sprit an expensive failure.

Long live WW2.