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Northwind said:
I never once suggested they be treated that way. I only challenged the idea that his motivation be known. All we can do is judge by their behaviours as you say.
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All political leaders size up their competition. They all have some kind of political angle they’re considering. Some hired staff try to do their jobs for the public good independent of that, and some try to accommodate their leader’s political angle.
 
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"Despite the differences, some of the principles to combat a virus remain the same"....
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
I don't know all that motivates Trudeau, but what motivates all world leaders is some combination of competition and ego.
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Trudeau is highly motivated and all comatitive ways "willing to put Canadians in harm's way to achieve his political desire" ... his own seat at the table of the UN Security Council.
 
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Ritafee said:
Trudeau is highly motivated and all ways "willing to put Canadians in harm's way to achieve his political desire" ... his own seat at the table of the UN Security Council.
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And you know this how? Have you talked to him and asked him that? We can't know what motivates another without getting to know them.
 
Northwind said:
And you know this how? Have you talked to him and asked him that? We can't know what motivates another without getting to know them.
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Hmm, I think we can sense motivation pretty accurately when the big picture is looked at. He is a politician, and a world leader, and they do always have an agenda we the common people don’t know all about - we ought to be sceptical under present circumstances. But to be so confident and precise as to the exact details as Rita, is also a mistake, in my opinion.
 
I agree, we can sense motivation. We can see it in behaviours. Still, we are mistaken if we think we absolutely know what motivates another. I would make the guess that someone who becomes a leader of a country probably likes being in charge, having power, and getting attention. It isn't so straight forward though. When we look at our PM and compare him to the president of the US, I'd say it's fair to guess they are each motivated by different things too. It's nuanced and multi-layered. I just don't believe we can be absolutely certain what motivates another unless we ask
 
Northwind said:
I agree, we can sense motivation. We can see it in behaviours. Still, we are mistaken if we think we absolutely know what motivates another. I would make the guess that someone who becomes a leader of a country probably likes being in charge, having power, and getting attention. It isn't so straight forward though. When we look at our PM and compare him to the president of the US, I'd say it's fair to guess they are each motivated by different things too. It's nuanced and multi-layered. I just don't believe we can be absolutely certain what motivates another unless we ask
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This is what I think is going on, roughly...

Trump screwed up royally in response to covid, by not only lack of preparation, but by early pronouncements that covid “Coronavirus” as it’s being generally referred to there still, was a hoax with regard to how the dems were spinning it. That created a shitstorm with democratic leaders and public who reacted angrily. And because Trump is Trump, he stalled further, and put up more obstacles. Obstacles to testing, treatment and equipment, and an already very broken health system and lagging public health, created a wider spread of the virus in big US cities. And that has created alarm, and anger by those on the political left. Trudeau, being on the political left by US terms, but leaning right here...looks like he’s doing the proper thing by raising the spectre of fear and clamping down. Because our neighbours on the left have had to do so because of Trump’s incompetence and late response, Trudeau, on the world stage, also looks like he’s being tougher, more conservative, compared to his counterparts and aspiring competition - here and abroad. But, Ottawa was also ill prepared and didn’t do adequate testing and didn’t have adequate stockpiles of supplies. What we saw in Wuhan, was that when leadership screwed up, they cracked down on the public to overcompensate and make it look like they had things well managed.
 
Northwind said:
And you know this how? Have you talked to him and asked him that? We can't know what motivates another without getting to know them.
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I do not have parliamentary access to getting past Trudeau's secret service guardians of the crown. I only know as much as you do ... by interpretation of the sanctioned or unsanctioned propaganda as it becomes available ... I am certain that he often says he will do one thing and then does the complete opposite. I am not making all of what I put to this thread up as I go along. Why is it that I am demanded to produce proof for my 'opinion' and others here are not. Then when I do provide the source ... no further interest is accorded it . Some of the headlines behind my reckoning ...
Trudeau Questioned On 'Motivation' Behind Looming UN Peacekeeping Mission ...
Trudeau was also pressed about his reluctance to hold a vote.
Trudeau returned to the House of Commons after a trip to the UN that was widely seen as the kickoff to Canada's campaign for a Security Council seat.

I won't bother to add the links because ... nobody reads them anyway ... I suspect that is because they do not fit with the confirmation bias soup de jour.

If puppets Trudeau and Trump are holding out for the vaccination ... WHO motivated them?

Bill Gates said in an interview with STAT two years ago that he had urged President Trump to invest in technologies to respond to a pandemic.

“The president was kind enough to spend time with me, and one of the issues I brought up is this opportunity to build new tools that would help us deal with a pandemic,’’ said Gates, who has long warned of the possibility of a global disease outbreak.

He added: “It is strange that this risk, that the world isn’t doing more. We talk about doing more when we have smaller epidemics like Ebola and Zika, but then the actual follow-up is pretty modest. We think the idea of spending what would be a tiny part of the budget to be ready for a pandemic makes sense.’’

www.statnews.com

In prescient move, Bill Gates urged Trump to invest in pandemic preparedness two years ago

In words that now seem prescient, Bill Gates said in an interview with STAT two years ago that he had urged President Trump to invest in technologies to respond to a pandemic.
www.statnews.com www.statnews.com

And now that I have provided the 'credentials' around my post ... you can go ahead and ignore the evidence of where we are headed and speculate to your hearts content about WHO you can BANK on for transparency and WHO you can not.

The World Health Organization has told countries to prepare for a coronavirus pandemic, but it hasn’t yet made that declaration and insists it’s too soon to do so.

In the interview, which took place in Boston in April 2018, Gates noted that the heightened “speed of travel’’ across the globe would exacerbate efforts to slow the spread of any pandemic.

He added: “When an epidemic hits, governments having been prepared in advance and going through simulations, that will help them make the decisions that are only in their hands.’’

People ‘shed’ high levels of coronavirus, study finds, but most are likely not infectious after recovery begins

He recalled that in an Oval Office meeting the month before, Trump was enthusiastic about the prospect of a universal flu vaccine. (In the same meeting, he said, Trump floated the idea of his becoming the White House science adviser.)
 
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It would’ve been nice if Trump had heeded Gates’ advice in that instance. On its face, I don’t have a problem with that advice. If it was all in Gate’s financial interest, and the equipment was produced and patented by Gates himself...that would be problematic. But if he was simply saying “prepare”, because viruses travel fast and people travel fast with them...that’s not poor advice. If the world had prepared the response would not be so heavy handed.
 
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If a universal flu vaccine were effective at stopping most forms of flu, then it’s not a bad thing. But you are opposed to all vaccines so it must seem like a scary idea to you, @Ritafee

I know that the only years I remember getting really sick with fever, and then coughing that lasted several weeks, and missed out on a lot of things to do, were years I didn’t get the vaccine. Colds were generally minor and short lived otherwise. Annoying, maybe sometimes minor symptoms lingered, but didn’t knock me down as hard.
 
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Hi! Remember me? If you want to get rid of me delete my account.

Like almost everyone else who is not a necessary worker, I’m sheltering in place. I’m retired, over 65. Living alone in a modest condo in Victoria. Two grown kids, 4 grandkids. Ordering in groceries (two chains here have online shopping although you to log on at weird hours due to the vast number of new online shoppers).

Looking to bounce ideas around.

Here‘s one from a video: there was an article discussing the possibility of “immune cards.”. The young man on the video was enraged because of its violation of the America Constitution.

My thoughts: we don’t even know if a single attack creates immunity. Other virus behaviour seems to suggest it although it doesn’t work for colds because (according to an NYT article) there are nearly 100 strains out there). It works more or less for flu. although I think (not positive) it has to be changed yearly due to mutation. Covid is an RNA virus and they mutate a lot.

We don’t even have an antibody test yet. So discussion of immunity cards seems a bit premature. I‘m sure not what to think of it. It seems like something we wouldn’t need if there was a vaccine.

It does seems somewhat Orwellian but these are not ordinary times.
 
With respect, I don't think that whilst we're living with the dreadful reality of this world-wide health crisis, this is not the time to discuss political or "pet" conspiracy theories....

So, until we have preferably a vaccine or more successful ways of mitigating the terrible loss of life resulting from this disease, I will be scrolling over -not reading - anything other than health news here.

I intend to use this period of self-isolation to educate myself more on medical issues.

With this in mind -@ChemGal and others in the medical field - I have read that in South Korea people who have been cured of this disease are now getting it again. Does immunity from previous exposure to an illness not always apply? Does immunity apply for varying amounts of time, depending on an illness?
 
PilgrimsProgress said:
With respect, I don't think that whilst we're living with the dreadful reality of this world-wide health crisis, this is not the time to discuss political or "pet" conspiracy theories....

So, until we have preferably a vaccine or more successful ways of mitigating the terrible loss of life resulting from this disease, I will be scrolling over -not reading - anything other than health news here.

I intend to use this period of self-isolation to educate myself more on medical issues.

With this in mind -@ChemGal and others in the medical field - I have read that in South Korea people who have been cured of this disease are now getting it again. Does immunity from previous exposure to an illness not always apply? Does immunity apply for varying amounts of time, depending on an illness?
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We absolutely have to consider the politics of this. And stay safe at the same time. Staying safe doesn’t have to mean harsh public policy. We need to question every step of the way. Follow the instructions and do what you need to do. I personally don’t think questioning policy as we go is wrong, though.

Consider that different places have different circumstances, and the response needs to be proportionate and justified.
 
Usually immunity to a virus that mutates means people have some protection and a lesser reaction the next time. 1/3 of all cold viruses are variations of Coronavirus. That was the case before COVID-19 emerged. It could be why kids are not being hit hard...because they are spreading them amongst themselves all the time. They still don’t know exactly why kids are not getting very sick...that would be one of the keys to understanding how the virus works. This virus has a zero fatality rate in under 19 (despite maybe a handful of kids in the whole world unfortunately dying from it...out of 7.8 billion people).
 
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I have talked to people here who think they had this in Jan-Feb. - if that is the case, it would be interesting to know. The west coast of BC sees a lot of business travel (and family travel, but business even moreso) between here and China all the time. It could be that the reason why we are not being hit as hard is that previously recorded pneumonia deaths in nursing homes were actually covid and that the general population in the coastal region already has some immunity. We are also generally healthier (not everyone but in general...we have very healthy seniors beating the odds here) due to more healthy active lifestyles. We don’t know but a widely available antibody test would answer a lot of questions.
 
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@Kimmeo It‘s strange that kids don’t get it , or do they just have no symptoms? We won’t know till there’s an antibody test but it’s a great relief that children are spared.
 
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