Nothing we do changes God's love for us

[chansen]

It appears to be a lightly-held consensus, among people who have had mystical experiences, that there is a benevolent intent in the Universe.

Confirmation bias. If you want to believe something is there bad enough, you'll find it.

The argument that something is out there based on "mystical experiences", which seems to be code for some sort of altered state, doesn't really need to be refuted because it can't be shown to anyone else. Joseph Smith contended he had a mystical experience with the angel Moroni. But the best argument against these mystical experiences, is that they are not consistent. Those mystical experiences are as varied in message as the beliefs of the people who claimed the mystical experiences. Certainly, not all who claim mystical experiences come back with benevolent messages. And, given the number of areas in the universe completely inhospitable to life, the number of creatures which consider you and I as a meal, and the number of microscopic things that will kill us from the inside out for no particular reason, the universe has a very strange way of exhibiting benevolence.

Don't even get me started on Australia.

 

[unsafe]

Well as I said you can believe what you like and so can every one else -------and I am entitled to that as well -----

God's Love is unconditional to a point -----but then the buck stops when it comes to His Covenants -----which are conditional -----

 

[Mendalla]

Don't even get me started on Australia.

I'll take tiger snakes and funnel webs over gun-toting looneys.

 

[Waterfall]

Well as I said you can believe what you like and so can every one else -------and I am entitled to that as well -----

God's Love is unconditional to a point -----but then the buck stops when it comes to His Covenants -----which are conditional -----

What is the definition of unconditional love?

 

[chansen]

Well as I said you can believe what you like and so can every one else -------and I am entitled to that as well -----

God's Love is unconditional to a point -----but then the buck stops when it comes to His Covenants -----which are conditional -----

unsafe, what do you think I can do to piss off God? I'd like to think I've done quite a bit, but I don't want to leave any stone unturned.

 

[unsafe]

Waterfall ---your quote ----
What is the definition of unconditional love?

unsafe says ---well you can be sure it means different things to you and me -------what is it to you -----

 

[Redbaron]

How would anyone know whether it means different things to you and to her, unless we can discern what it means to you? Try answering the question, rather than trying to deflect and dodge and change the subject.

 

[Carolla]

God's Love is unconditional to a point

If there's "a point" then it's NOT unconditional love ... there are conditions.

 

[unsafe]

well here are some questions for you all ------

Will God's unconditional Love get you into heaven without accepting Jesus as your Lord and saviour ----according to scripture

Will God's unconditional Love save your from Satan's attacks according to scripture without obeying what He says in His word to Keep the enemy away --

Will God's unconditional Love protect you from bringing the curse into your life according to scripture without obeying the way God tells you to keep the curse out of your life -----

Will God's unconditional Love keep you from trials in your life -----according to scripture

Will God's unconditional love rescue you from your sin nature without accepting His Son ------according to His word

Will God's unconditional Love stop you from going to eternal torment according to scripture ------

Will God's unconditional Love give you access to His Covenants automatically without following His Commands -----

Will God's unconditional Love allow you to come into His presents without any Faith in Him -----according to scripture
Will God's unconditional love allow you to access all His Promises without following His way to access His Promises --according to scripture ---

Will God's unconditional Love give unbelievers access to answered Prayer --- according to scripture -----

Will God's unconditional Love give you access to all spiritual Blessings --according to scripture -----


If you say Yes to any of these then we certainly are far apart on what scripture says -------cause there are demands and conditions to all these ---- If God's Love was totally unconditional then all people would have access to all the above and Jesus would not have had to die on the cross ------


God's unconditional love is that He loved us to bring us to be able to be rescued and have a second chance to be able to get back into His Family ------He sent His Son to die and take what we deserve that is unconditional Love ------ He loves all unconditionally even if we don't love Him ------The Greatest unconditional Love ever was Jesus laying down His own Life for us all --He sends the sun and rain on the just and unjust -----that is unconditional Love -----He allows us to have our way with sin that is unconditional love ----He bestowed Common Grace on all of us that is unconditional Love ---and He bestowed intellectual Faith on all His Creation that is unconditional Love -----


So is God's Love totally unconditional ????????????????-----

 

[Redbaron]

Here is a question for you, not the first time it's been asked. What is 'unconditional love'? What does it mean to you?
Now, breathe and focus. You can answer this. I believe in you.

 

[Northwind]

John Piper - Jesus doesn't love everybody the same

So, do you follow people like John Piper (I've never heard of him) or the bible? It seems to me you put a lot of credibility into these people rather than do your own discerning. How is that different from listening to other preachers/clergy such as the folks here? I'm guessing they follow your worldview and your interpretation of "the truth"

 

[unsafe]

Redbaron ----I gave my answer like it or not -----and stop with your condescending attitude ---who do you think up are --I don't have to answer to you ---Period ----

 

[Redbaron]

You have NOT answered the question. You have tried to deflect with myriad questions of your own. You have hidden behind John 17 and John Piper. But you have NOT answered the question. Not even close.

 

[unsafe]

You have not answered the questions I posted either ------so go and answer them ------

 

[Redbaron]

Now you're trying to change the subject (again.)

 

[Northwind]

Well as I said you can believe what you like and so can every one else -------and I am entitled to that as well -----

Of course you are entitled to your opinion as is anyone here. We'd like to hear your own opinions, not just texts or quotes. You seem to put more stock in other people's views and don't seem able to express your own opinion.


This is not answering the question:

Waterfall ---your quote ----
What is the definition of unconditional love?

unsafe says ---well you can be sure it means different things to you and me -------what is it to you -----

Nor is this:

well here are some questions for you all ------

 

[GeoFee]

Hi,

and stop with your condescending attitude ---who do you think up are --I don't have to answer to you

Perhaps take this to your mirror and read it out loud. You sit here as one who judges all who do not agree with your interpretation of scripture. Further, you consistently condemn those who disagree with you. Always making out that there is only one truth and that you and those who instruct you possess that truth. Sorry. Truth possessed ceases to be truth.

God says come and let us reason together. God is open to conversation with us. We may state our point of view just as all may state their point of view. God is the only sufficient mediator of truth. That is why we walk by faith and not by sight. I do not have a precise interpretation of scripture. For me it points to the living word of God as experienced by persons such as Sarah, Abraham, Moses, Jeremiah, Amos, Elizabeth, Mary, Jesus, Paul and the saints of all times and places. I do not trust in correct doctrine. My trust is in the who breathed life into me. Both material life and spiritual life.

Pride goes before a fall. Humble yourself and God will lift you up.

George

 

[unsafe]

Thanks for your advice their GeoFee

 

[Northwind]

I decided to get back on track here. I really like the meditation in the OP. This stands out in particular:

The love in you—which is the Spirit in you—always somehow says yes. (See 2 Corinthians 1:20.) Love is not something you do; love is something you are. It is your True Self.

Our faith journey should take us to our true self. What we are created to be and able to use our gifts in the best way possible. For me, that can't involve a dogmatic, black and white view of religion or "truth". That is stifling and forces everyone into the same box. How can that be good when we are all given different gifts and personalities?

I like the concept of "uncreated grace". I remember one man who ran the shelter in my former town. Only sober people were allowed because it was a dry shelter. He would "err on the side of grace" and let people who had been drinking spend the night as long as they didn't cause problems. that was a good way to live. I hope I can do that as much as possible.

 

[Redbaron]

Yes, that does sound like what John Wesley called 'prevenient grace'-- the grace that extends to all, whether they know it or acknowledge it. It is in responding affirmatively to that grace we receive more grace, and are transformed. God's grace, and/or God's love, helping us find and become our truest selves, the self God creates us to become.