Nothing we do changes God's love for us

[Waterfall]

To have free beings with whom to interact. If God wanted robots that God controlled, then God could have done so. But one cannot love a robot. It's just a machine.

And this also assumes God created us directly. If God's creativity consists more of being a shaper and guide of forces like evolution, rather directly creating things, then God does not have total control over the end product. And that, again, is part of the need for free entities that can be loved.

I personally don'-t buy into that explanation, it assumes that God lacks something by having a need for free entities to love. God as perfect love needs love from imperfect beings to sustain itself? Humans did not always exist.
That explanation suggests its more of an interest for us to create God, to sustain us doesn't it?

 

[Pavlos Maros]

Pavlos, do you admit to the existence of the emotion/action/feeling of "love"?

Exactly as Mendalla had stated, it is a chemical and sensory reaction to certain stimuli, I cant profess to knowing exactly how it works, and I like the feeling.
However what has that got to do with the imagined concept of a god. An imagined concept cannot feel love, let alone produce the chemicals to warrant it. So Bette you've lost on this question.

 

[Mendalla]

I personally don'-t buy into that explanation, it assumes that God lacks something by having a need for free entities to love. God as perfect love needs love from imperfect beings to sustain itself? Humans did not always exist.

So how do you explain God's creation? A whim? Entertainment? Out of control failed experiment? Why would God create life that God can't control?

That explanation suggests its more of an interest for us to create God, to sustain us doesn't it?

And that, according to people like Pavlos and chansen, is exactly what happened.

 

[chansen]

That explanation suggests its more of an interest for us to create God, to sustain us doesn't it?

We know we do this. We create explanations all the time. Cargo cults are an excellent example of humans coming up with supernatural deity-centred reasons for why things happen, and to use rituals and prayer to promote good, life-sustaining things.

Our species is really good at this.

 

[Luce NDs]

I personally don'-t buy into that explanation, it assumes that God lacks something by having a need for free entities to love. God as perfect love needs love from imperfect beings to sustain itself? Humans did not always exist.
That explanation suggests its more of an interest for us to create God, to sustain us doesn't it?

God lacks something because of the fallout ... US! ... don;t worry we will be called home as part of the satyr ... and it will convert ... a due change is wise from the state we're in!

 

[Luce NDs]

We know we do this. We create explanations all the time. Cargo cults are an excellent example of humans coming up with supernatural deity-centred reasons for why things happen, and to use rituals and prayer to promote good, life-sustaining things.

Our species is really good at this.

Thus much fallout as fallacy ... so we have MS takes to learn from ... in men it is the anima ... in woman the animus ... and therein a point of impact or clash. As a following in arrears one may think about it in the darker hours ... maybe 4 in the morning ... and it is don'd! Shady sphere's or just Black Bauld?

Very little understanding due to those that lost their curiosity in the splash down ... arid humours prevail at the strand ... some will strut ... and some won't construct it ... thus the mind of fools getting aboard ... looking for ignition! Pyreships ... sometimes leading to pyretics ... it is all in the inflamed narrative ...

I had a cute dumb blonde throw me a kiss the other day ... her grandmother said it was because she was a 2 year-old toddler learning (the ropes of kissing off old fools is my impression).

It could be a story that will increase ... inflation is like that ... politicians CEO's and rabid teachers go that way if not continuing scholars in the school on mankind's doings! We live in a world driven by radical passions ... relations erupt ...

 

[BetteTheRed]

Exactly as Mendalla had stated, it is a chemical and sensory reaction to certain stimuli, I cant profess to knowing exactly how it works, and I like the feeling.
However what has that got to do with the imagined concept of a god. An imagined concept cannot feel love, let alone produce the chemicals to warrant it. So Bette you've lost on this question.

Seriously, Pavlos? I'm not a winning/losing type person in anything besides mathematics. There's nuance here, and I like un-packing it.

I'm asking you what you do with the unexplained/inexplicable. I don't really 'get' love. It's not static; it's not clear if it's energy, emotion, action. The love a mother feels for a newborn is very different than the love between two teenagers, the love one has for a friend from childhood, and the love one might have after a 60-year marriage. Prattling on about love and doing nothing with/for the beloved isn't love, I don't think.

It appears to be a lightly-held consensus, among people who have had mystical experiences, that there is a benevolent intent in the Universe. Julian of Norwich's "And all will be well, and all manner of things will be well."

 

[Mendalla]

The love a mother feels for a newborn is very different than the love between two teenagers, the love one has for a friend from childhood, and the love one might have after a 60-year marriage. Prattling on about love and doing nothing with/for the beloved isn't love, I don't think.

Is that an issue with love itself, though, or is it the English language using the same word for different things? IOW, are we back to the "Four loves" or whatever you want to call it, where agape, eros, etc. are really different things that we in the English-speaking world have chosen to lump together.

 

[Waterfall]

So how do you explain God's creation? A whim? Entertainment? Out of control failed experiment? Why would God create life that God can't control?

I don't think humans really know the answer to that question, but we do have many religions with numerous creation stories don't we? We even have science telling us how we came out of the oceans and evolved and how the earth was formed. I only know I believe in the power of love (God) and it's real and that without that inside of us we are doomed

 

[Mendalla]

I only know I believe in the power of love (God) and it's real and that without that inside of us we are doomed

One can believe in a power of Love and not have it be the literal Creator of all things. In fact, that's kind of how I lean. If God exists, God is a creative force for Love in existence, but not necessarily the literal Creator in the sense of bringing things into being. God works with and within the structure of the universe that we describe using the standard model, etc., not as an outside being reaching in but as an integral, overarching part of that whole.

 

[chansen]

To me, God - every god - is a massive overreach on the part of humanity. We simply want to explain what we don't understand and yet want to feel some control over, or feel that someone has some control over. We are control freaks. We are pattern seekers. Most religious texts probably started out as explanations for why things are. I really do think that religious hucksterism largely took over at some point, and a lot of religion is sold by people who know it's a scam, but a profitable one. It is insanely easy to sell this scam to people conditioned to believe without evidence, and indeed, think belief in the absence of evidence is a noble trait. This scam is pushed on us with claims about the nature of love, of life, and of the existence of an afterlife and how to get your personal ticket. It would be so easy for me to join the ranks of the born-agains and sell this scam. I just could not do it. I'm not built to scam people for person profit. I am built to enjoy scam busting and making fun of scammers.

 

[Waterfall]

To me, God - every god - is a massive overreach on the part of humanity. We simply want to explain what we don't understand and yet want to feel some control over, or feel that someone has some control over. We are control freaks. We are pattern seekers. Most religious texts probably started out as explanations for why things are. I really do think that religious hucksterism largely took over at some point, and a lot of religion is sold by people who know it's a scam, but a profitable one. It is insanely easy to sell this scam to people conditioned to believe without evidence, and indeed, think belief in the absence of evidence is a noble trait. This scam is pushed on us with claims about the nature of love, of life, and of the existence of an afterlife and how to get your personal ticket. It would be so easy for me to join the ranks of the born-agains and sell this scam. I just could not do it. I'm not built to scam people for person profit. I am built to enjoy scam busting and making fun of scammers.

How did you bust the scam of the afterlife?

 

[Mendalla]

I really do think that religious hucksterism largely took over at some point, and a lot of religion is sold by people who know it's a scam, but a profitable one.

You know what? I do not entirely disagree (in fact, I agree to a great degree), but that doesn't prove or disprove anything about religion, only about the humans who propagate it. Something can be true and still be used in a scam. And just because a huckster uses it in a scam doesn't mean a sincere believer like @Waterfall or other Christians on here has to abandon their beliefs or is wrong in holding them. I was a Christian and I condemned the religious hucksters of the day (this was in the Jerry Falwell, Oral Roberts, Jim and Tammy Faye era of TV evangelism). I may be one again, not because I fell for a "scam" but because my examination of Christian thought and theology led me to some revelation about myself and the world. Though, to be fair, it is unlikely that I will be anywhere near orthodox even if it happens. I was already unitarian and universalist theologically speaking well before I stopped believing in God and Christ.

 

[unsafe]

A 5 and a half min video ----worth the listen

Truth According to Scripture
Published on Aug 26, 2014

John MaCarthur and R. C. Sproul discuss the seriousness of the error of teaching that God's love is unconditional.

God's Love is NOT "Unconditional"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcOzTZUOBn0

 

[Mendalla]

So, before I waste 5 minutes of my too short life, does this actually represent your view, @unsafe , and are you prepared to actually discuss it? Or will you just brush off any questioning or challenge as "avoiding the truth"?

 

[chansen]

How did you bust the scam of the afterlife?

It's the perfect setup. You simply have fun with the concept because it is offered with zero reason to believe it.

 

[unsafe]

I don't avoid the truth there Mendalla ---I speak what I personally believe just like you do ----if you don't want to watch the video that is your right ----I posted it as it pertains to This thread -----if you don't want me posting on this Thread then say so ---what I believe is that God Loves all His Creation but not all the Same ----Sin hides God's face from unbelievers ---that is what the scripture says and that is what I believe ------God shows sinners His mercy every day --he makes it rain on the just and unjust so this in itself shows His Love for all His Creation ------

Here is where I feel He loves different His own ------that is the people who belong to Him ---Jesus is praying here -----he prays for His disciples who belong to Him ----- not for the world -----Read all below John 17 NIV ----

9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.

Jesus Prays for His Disciples

6 “I have revealed you[a] to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of[b] your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by[c] that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.


unsafe says ----
Now you and others can interpret this scripture anyway you like to -----but for me God Loves all His Creation but shows more to His Own Children ---People who receive Him -----that is my belief -----


And here is a quote from John Piper -----so I am not alone in my belief
John Piper - Jesus doesn't love everybody the same

 

[Pavlos Maros]

It appears to be a lightly-held consensus, among people who have had mystical experiences, that there is a benevolent intent in the Universe.

If a billion people believe a lie it still remains a lie. Just because a lot of people have claimed experiences without any evidence doesn't make those experience real. Especially when the opposite is in fact true and the universe does not care whether we are here or not.

 

[chansen]

John Piper - Jesus doesn't love everybody the same

Jesus is like me with my children.

 

[Mendalla]

And here is a quote from John Piper -----so I am not alone in my belief
John Piper - Jesus doesn't love everybody the same

And if we think John Piper is full of it? I mean, supporting your position by appeal to someone everybody already knows you follow doesn't really help your case. Just confirms where you're getting your ideas from at most.