Nicodemus at Night (John 3: 1-21)

[unsafe]

I meant John 3: 19-2

John 3:19-21
Easy-to-Read Version​

19 They are judged by this fact: The light[a] has come into the world. But they did not want light. They wanted darkness, because they were doing evil things. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light. They will not come to the light, because the light will show all the bad things they have done. 21 But anyone who follows the true way comes to the light. Then the light will show that whatever they have done was done through God.

I say -----So this is the word used here in this scripture for darkness below ------it signifies to me ignorance of the light -----

HELPS Word-studies
4655 skótos (a neuter noun) – properly, darkness (obscurity);

metaphorically, of ignorance respecting divine things and human duties, and the accompanying ungodliness and immorality, together with their consequent misery (see σκοτία): John 3:19;

 

[paradox3]

@unsafe
What do you mean by ignorance? Do you mean not knowing or do you mean not paying attention?

 

[Mendalla]

That's actually an interesting take on "darkness". So, the light is there in the world, but people choose to shut it out of their lives. At least that's how I am reading this.

And I think @unsafe is talking wilful blindness rather than simply not knowing or not paying attention, but I am happy to stand corrected.

 

[unsafe]

What do you mean by ignorance? Do you mean not knowing or do you mean not paying attention?

this is the Greek word for ignorance -----

Strong's Concordance
agnoia: ignorance

Phonetic Spelling: (ag'-noy-ah)
Definition: ignorance
Usage: ignorance, inadvertence, sometimes with the idea of willful blindness.

 

[paradox3]

Is the most important teaching that we can can decide whether or not to come to the Light?

 

[BetteTheRed]

Is the most important teaching that we can can decide whether or not to come to the Light?

I had a vision once. In a wyrd place a wyrd time. It asked me to be a blessing.

 

[Mystic]

I had a vision once. In a wyrd place a wyrd time. It asked me to be a blessing.

My first and only waking vision was a vision of Jesus immediately after my immersive baptism at age 11. I chose to get baptized basically to please my parents. I was the only child in a 12-men catechetical pre-baptismal class, which was not child-friendly; they used a lot of technical theological jargon that I couldn't understand. Just prior to wading out in my black robe in the huge baptismal tank behind the platform, I was encouraged to share a personal testimony before 1,500 gathered congregants. All 11 of the adult men who preceded me gave short jargonized testimonies, but I was the only one too shell-shocked and unprepared to do so. The fact that I was the only one who declined when asked to share my testimony was absolutely humiliating to me and at that point I just wanted to get my ordeal over with. The disappointed pastor instead asked me some easy catechetical questions that required Yes or No answers and then he dunked me "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
p

When I emerged from the water, I suddenly saw a smiling Jesus in the corner of the tank radiating amused compassion towards me. I think Jesus was amused by His awareness that this tongue-tied litttle boy would grow up to be s motor-mouth theology professor and minister! In any case, that shocking unexpected vision of Jesus transformed my baptism from a dreadful ordeal to one of the most sacred and treasured experiences of my life.

 

[paradox3]

I am really liking the idea of the Light exposing or revealing things about us. To ourselves and others.

We have a couple of beautiful hymns which touch on this theme:

VU 96: Will You Come and See the Light

VU: 87: I Am the Light of the World

The passage reads like coming to the Light is a one time deal rather than an ongoing process. But maybe this makes sense in the context of being born again or being born from above.

 

[paradox3]

@BetteTheRed and @Mystic

Thanks for telling us about those visions.

Can't say I have ever had a vision myself. The closest I have come to it has been during guided meditation.

 

[Luce NDs]

Then there is the case of Ci Reactive Protein ... also a mystery and cause of chronic stress disorder they say! This is a section of RA Syndrome ... considered a mystery disease in those observing only ... let us not get into that as it is sophisticated and complex ... totally undesired integrally!

 

[Mystic]

I am really liking the idea of the Light exposing or revealing things about us. To ourselves and others.
The passage reads like coming to the Light is a one time deal rather than an ongoing process. But maybe this makes sense in the context of being born again or being born from above.

When we read John or Paul, we often forget that these saints are not academic metaphysicians; their language is rooted in mystical experience that is hard to express adequately in words and serves rather as a poetic window into the soul. And that brings me to the question of what "the born again experience" is like. Billy Graham used to explain it this way on the basis of reports from his converts:

"When you become born again, you experience the blue sky, green grass, and flowers differently. You experience them now as radiating the energy of the Creator, an energy now illuminating your perception in a way that makes your prior experience seem like darkness."

Btw. I once encountered a retired UCCan minister who was driving down from British Columbia through my town. During our conversation, he mentioned that he was born again in the Billy Graham Centennial Crusade in Winnipeg and went forward to embrace Christ and give joyful public witness to his newfound faith. That deeply moved me because, as a boy, I attended every one of those meetings and felt the electrifying presence of God in the Winnipeg Arena long before the meeting started, an experience that I never had when watching Billy Graham on TV. My Dad was a personal worker in that Crusade and may well have prayed with this future UCCan minister in that Crusade.

 

[paradox3]

Good points about mystical experience and poetic language @Mystic

 

[Mendalla]

Good points about mystical experience and poetic language @Mystic

And it's a gap I see in UU'ism and in some progressive Christianity, too. The focus is on rationality and misses the fact that religion is about more than a rational understanding of the world, which can be obtained through philosophy and science. It's about, in the words of one of the UU sources, "Direct experience of that transcending mystery and wonder, affirmed in all cultures, which moves us to a renewal of the spirit and an openness to the forces which create and uphold life."

 

[paradox3]

Agreeing with you @Mendalla

Even the passage we are discussing, with its heavy focus on belief, describes more than intellectual assent to ideas.

 

[Mystic]

Good points about mystical experience and poetic language @Mystic

In this respect I love Paul's poetic image of seeing "through the eyes of your enlightened heart" in Ephesians 1:18.

 

[paradox3]

Thanks again to all who participated on this thread. I enjoyed hosting and found the discussion quite valuable.

Tomorrow I will be starting a new BPoTW study. We will see Jesus return to Cana and perform a second miracle.

John says quite clearly this is the second sign.

There seems to be general consensus about six of the signs in John's Gospel. Some people want there to be seven of them in total. There are different opinions about which story should be considered sign #7.

Hope to see you there. P3

 

[Luce NDs]

The heart is a squeezing function ... to a point of relief ... it too may let go ...