My Weekly Devotional

[airclean33]

Yes, you're full of s**t. You may not even realize it, but it certainly looks that way, even to many Christians. You imply threats you can't back up, and you're aggressive in defense of ideas you can barely communicate.

--It would seem" well enough ,to sett you off". What you believe or don't believe Chansen", is up to you".
But do you really think" anyone would want to be like you"? I have no need to swear ,at you". In fact I believe your not a bad guy ". You seem to think, it helps" to say nasty things to others" why? Most of the Guys I know ," that were like that" . Spent a lot of time getting there teeth, fixed". And don't think" it is all Men". I was at a Bar in Amsterdam" where I seen a Women" ,knock a man out".

 

[chansen]

I give up.

 

[revjohn]

I think they were, shows motive as to why he was charged

He was nabbed at the same time a protest was broken up. Wrong place, wrong time.

Policing a peaceful protest has changed due, in part, to the experiences of the last 20 years and GeoFee was at the forefront of a lot of that protesting.

No doubt the police were trying to exert control. That is what they were trained to do at the time. The training has changed some since.

And certainly you are not going to rough up a civilian and not charge him with resisting otherwise you are just a thug.

 

[unsafe]

revjohn ----------Your Quote So, unsafe, you know that GeoFee was charged with three counts. How many of those charges resulted in actual convictions? And which of those charges, in your eyes, permits police officers to handle him roughly?

unsafe says
Again with all do respect revjohn -----It is not about my eyes revjohn --it is not about if he was charged or not ---it is not about the actions of the police ----it is not about how our Criminal Justice System works in Canada.---it is not about any of that at all -----

Keeping with the Thread Topic for this week in James 4 ----it is all about the actions and attitude of a Born Again Christian who has the Holy Spirit living on the inside of him and how Christ like is the behaviour that was presented ---our Carnal mind trying to straddle God and this world ---being double minded --being unstable in our ways ---trying to serve 2 masters ----is for me the issue ---he says that God tells him this is his calling ----to do what get suspended from his church and get involved in altercations with the law -----I don't think so ----

God says this revjohn -----We are to obey the laws of the land --GeoFee is a Minister of God as you are revjohn ----all Christians are called to Set an example for others ----and you think his behaviour set a good example to show how True Christ--ians are to behave ----you are condoning his behaviour and saying that it is all the cops fault and he was given a raw deal --wrong place --wrong time --Seems to me the blame game being played here

With all due respect to you ----if you want to condone GeoFee's behaviour as a Born Again Holy Spirit filled person as right and fine by God than that is entirely up to you and any other True Christ-ian -----but for me I cannot condone his behaviour in these altercations as being right and fine in God's eyes ----- and that is the issue here for me ----


Romans 13:1-7 (GNT)
Duties toward State Authorities

13 Everyone must obey state authorities, because no authority exists without God's permission, and the existing authorities have been put there by God.

2 Whoever opposes the existing authority opposes what God has ordered; and anyone who does so will bring judgment on himself.

3 For rulers are not to be feared by those who do good, but by those who do evil. Would you like to be unafraid of those in authority? Then do what is good, and they will praise you, 4 because they are God's servants working for your own good. But if you do evil, then be afraid of them, because their power to punish is real. They are God's servants and carry out God's punishment on those who do evil.

5 For this reason you must obey the authorities—not just because of God's punishment, but also as a matter of conscience.

6That is also why you pay taxes, because the authorities are working for God when they fulfill their duties. 7 Pay, then, what you owe them; pay them your personal and property taxes, and show respect and honor for them all.

 

[chansen]

13 Everyone must obey state authorities, because no authority exists without God's permission, and the existing authorities have been put there by God.

I had to run to Google to make sure this was real.

 

[Mendalla]

revjohn ----------Your Quote So, unsafe, you know that GeoFee was charged with three counts. How many of those charges resulted in actual convictions? And which of those charges, in your eyes, permits police officers to handle him roughly?

unsafe says
Again with all do respect revjohn -----It is not about my eyes revjohn --it is not about if he was charged or not ---it is not about the actions of the police ----it is not about how our Criminal Justice System works in Canada.---it is not about any of that at all -----

Keeping with the Thread Topic for this week in James 4 ----it is all about the actions and attitude of a Born Again Christian who has the Holy Spirit living on the inside of him and how Christ like is the behaviour that was presented ---our Carnal mind trying to straddle God and this world ---being double minded --being unstable in our ways ---trying to serve 2 masters ----is for me the issue ---he says that God tells him this is his calling ----to do what get suspended from his church and get involved in altercations with the law -----I don't think so ----

God says this revjohn -----We are to obey the laws of the land --GeoFee is a Minister of God as you are revjohn ----all Christians are called to Set an example for others ----and you think his behaviour set a good example to show how True Christ--ians are to behave ----you are condoning his behaviour and saying that it is all the cops fault and he was given a raw deal --wrong place --wrong time --Seems to me the blame game being played here

With all due respect to you ----if you want to condone GeoFee's behaviour as a Born Again Holy Spirit filled person as right and fine by God than that is entirely up to you and any other True Christ-ian -----but for me I cannot condone his behaviour in these altercations as being right and fine in God's eyes ----- and that is the issue here for me ----


Romans 13:1-7 (GNT)
Duties toward State Authorities

13 Everyone must obey state authorities, because no authority exists without God's permission, and the existing authorities have been put there by God.

2 Whoever opposes the existing authority opposes what God has ordered; and anyone who does so will bring judgment on himself.

3 For rulers are not to be feared by those who do good, but by those who do evil. Would you like to be unafraid of those in authority? Then do what is good, and they will praise you, 4 because they are God's servants working for your own good. But if you do evil, then be afraid of them, because their power to punish is real. They are God's servants and carry out God's punishment on those who do evil.

5 For this reason you must obey the authorities—not just because of God's punishment, but also as a matter of conscience.

6That is also why you pay taxes, because the authorities are working for God when they fulfill their duties. 7 Pay, then, what you owe them; pay them your personal and property taxes, and show respect and honor for them all.

So what are the limits on this? If the authorities do things that run against what God has taught, are Christians not called to oppose them? If the authorities start closing churches and rounding up ministers, do Christians have to just turn over the keys and the clergy? If the police are killing unarmed civilians, are Christians called to pat them on the back and assume they had good reason? Because what you are saying implies all of this. I know I'm doing a reductio ad absurdum on this, but that's what a teaching like this requires. Take it to its logical conclusion to see the flaws in it.

 

[revjohn]

Again with all do respect revjohn -----It is not about my eyes revjohn --it is not about if he was charged or not ---it is not about the actions of the police ----it is not about how our Criminal Justice System works in Canada.---it is not about any of that at all

You made it so when you said don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Until GeoFee is convicted he is innocent. Apparently, he committed no crime, that was the finding of the Civil Courts when the police arrested GeoFee.

Likewise in the Ecclesial Courts of the Church which acted in a highly irregular and improper way. No actual convictions against GeoFee in this regard either.

And to be clear. I would not have made any of the choices that GeoFee did in this circumstance. It is not my place to condone or condemn his choices. There are courts of authority that do have that place. I do not belong to one of them.

That said, I wouldn't have sought to discipline him for the confrontation with the police. No criminal conviction means that he is innocent and the confrontation should never have happened. Somebody made a mistake. The authority that has the right to make that determination decided that it was the police who were in error and GeoFee was appropriately set free.

he says that God tells him this is his calling ----to do what get suspended from his church and get involved in altercations with the law -----I don't think so ----

Which is fair. It doesn't mean that you are right in the matter.

Nor does it mean that Presbytery was right to take the action they did. The fact that they refused, contrary to Church policy, to complete the review demonstrates to me that they knew they were in the wrong. Sometimes, the various courts of the Church can be used as whips or cudgels against individuals or congregations.

That needs to be resisted.

God says this revjohn -----We are to obey the laws of the land --GeoFee is a Minister of God as you are revjohn ----all Christians are called to Set an example for others ----and you think his behaviour set a good example to show how True Christ--ians are to behave ----you are condoning his behaviour and saying that it is all the cops fault and he was given a raw deal --wrong place --wrong time --Seems to me the blame game being played here

I do not have to agree with GeoFee's understandings nor his actions. I also do not have to justify police brutality as if that is God's plan.

Yes all Christians are called to set examples. There are worse Christian examples than the one GeoFee has set.

And if the Court had been convinced that the charges were warranted then GeoFee would have been found guilty. He wasn't. The Judge rebuked the police behaviour for the arrest and their treatment of GeoFee afterward. A judge is an earthly authority.

With all due respect to you ----if you want to condone GeoFee's behaviour as a Born Again Holy Spirit filled person as right and fine by God than that is entirely up to you and any other True Christ-ian -----but for me I cannot condone his behaviour in these altercations as being right and fine in God's eyes ----- and that is the issue here for m

Which is fair. Save for the fact that you are not a witness to events and you think that you can judge GeoFee on account of them.

With respect to Romans 13 and respect for authority. There is no respect if one simply roles over and allows authority to make mistakes.

 

[GeoFee]

Hi,

For rulers are not to be feared by those who do good, but by those who do evil. Would you like to be unafraid of those in authority? Then do what is good, and they will praise you, 4 because they are God's servants working for your own good. But if you do evil, then be afraid of them, because their power to punish is real. They are God's servants and carry out God's punishment on those who do evil.

I suspect you are aware of what happened in Germany not very long ago. Little by little the government introduced laws by which the Jews were targeted and persecuted. This while the majority of Christians did nothing to resist such changes. There were exceptions. These stood up and protested the actions of the government. For this they were treated as traitors and punished harshly, including death by firing squad.

You know how the prophets were treated for speaking out against the abuses of the Monarchy. They called for justice and suffered for it, being imprisoned, tortured and murdered. This in full sight of the legal authorities. The same is revealed in the witness of Jesus of Nazareth. He crossed many legal boundaries to include those excluded by the law. For this he was arrested and put to death.

From my point of view the follower of Jesus is called to stand in the light when governments are lost in the dark. This is what I have tried to do with all of my available resources of insight and energy.

Unsafe you seem almost unable to have a conversation which does not end in your judgement of others. All of your poorly presented posts are pretty much the same. Everyone but you has it wrong. Disagreeing with your interpretation of scripture is disagreeing with God. I have brought this to your attention in various ways. So have others. What you decide to do about this is your business.

George

 

[chansen]

Unsafe you seem almost unable to have a conversation which does not end in your judgement of others. All of your poorly presented posts are pretty much the same. Everyone but you has it wrong. Disagreeing with your interpretation of scripture is disagreeing with God. I have brought this to your attention in various ways. So have others. What you decide to do about this is your business.

I've been saying much the same thing for a long time now, but I still can't get Romans 13 out of my mind. What a disgusting power-grabbing bit of scripture.

 

[airclean33]

Hi Unsafe--I" agree with all you've posted Sister". But I believe in George", he I believe is not one, of the bad guys".
I truly think he is trying hard" to walk with God". I do think" he is off path some", but then again we all " have that happen now and then. . The enemy", is always waiting to deceive us". These are our Brothers and Sisters Unsafe ". "We are called to Love them". All Glory Is GODS", we just work with Him." Let us walk in His Love . Your Brother Gord."

 

[BetteTheRed]

In context, however, it makes some sense.

Romans were pretty brutal rulers. So a letter to believers in the seat of their government might, sensibly, suggest they keep their heads down if they want to protect a fledgling movement. I cannot think that poor St. Paul thought that unsafe would be bludgeoning George over the head with it two millenia later.

 

[chansen]

I doubt any of them were thinking this long term. They wanted to consolidate power for themselves. unsafe likes it because it's in the bible so she'll run with it just because.

 

[Mendalla]

I doubt any of them were thinking this long term. They wanted to consolidate power for themselves.

They weren't thinking long term but I don't think that was the reason. Romans was written way before power was even an issue. Not getting crucified was their biggest concern, as P3 indicates. Fact is, the early church thought the whole Kingdom of God thing would happen in their lifetimes. The church was preparing for the big event, not for a completely different civilization 2000ish years in the future.

 

[airclean33]

Hi,
I suspect you are aware of what happened in Germany not very long ago. Little by little the government introduced laws by which the Jews were targeted and persecuted. This while the majority of Christians did nothing to resist such changes. There were exceptions. These stood up and protested the actions of the government. For this they were treated as traitors and punished harshly, including death by firing squad.

Airclean--post--

I have tried very hard to stay out of this, but you have now posted things I feel very knowledgeable about this. It I believe was much worse in Germany as Hitler was taken over. You could just read the wrong book.

--George--post--
You know how the prophets were treated for speaking out against the abuses of the Monarchy. They called for justice and suffered for it, being imprisoned, tortured and murdered. This in full sight of the legal authorities. The same is revealed in the witness of Jesus of Nazareth. He crossed many legal boundaries to include those excluded by the law. For this he was arrested and put to death.

--Airclean--post --
This very true George, We who Follow" are to expect nothing better. But we are also warned not to tempted" the Law", or the state" , or provenance your in".


--George--post---
From my point of view the follower of Jesus is called to stand in the light when governments are lost in the dark. This is what I have tried to do with all of my available resources of insight and energy.

--airclean--post--

Here again you seem to have it right" . We are to let our light shine" , but I don't think GOD' meant in there eyes and face". In peace" and at peace". With GOD" going on before". Now is not our time" to attack Army's or Government's", when our Lord ," returns it will be different." We are a part of the Lamb "just now . But when The Ram of GOD" comes , then we will be as He" is.


Unsafe you seem almost unable to have a conversation which does not end in your judgement of others. All of your poorly presented posts are pretty much the same. Everyone but you has it wrong. Disagreeing with your interpretation of scripture is disagreeing with God. I have brought this to your attention in various ways. So have others. What you decide to do about this is your business.

George

--I Hope my Sister answer's this as well George. As I have also been told this. There is But One GOD" , One Begotten SON " One Holy Spirit". Should we be so different"? Those who walk in The Way George, are one with Christ and Jesus ,"with GOD" with The Holy Spirit in us". Read slow George , so often today the world, is in a rush" . We though are in no rush," as we have forever". Your Brother in Christ"..airclean33Gord.

 

[airclean33]

They weren't thinking long term but I don't think that was the reason. Romans was written way before power was even an issue. Not getting crucified was their biggest concern, as P3 indicates. Fact is, the early church thought the whole Kingdom of God thing would happen in their lifetimes. The church was preparing for the big event, not for a completely different civilization 2000ish years in the future.

Hi Mendalla---

Yes of course Mendalla they had no Idea what was coming . This is why God gave John the Book of Rev".

 

[unsafe]

revjohn ---

This is my quote from page 34 post #665----------do the crime do the time ---all sin has consequences ---- I was focusing on the committing the transgression of a law ----we are in sin when we break a law ----no one makes us do that ---we do it cause we made a choice to do it ---our bad action bring bad results -----we can't blame the results on anyone but ourselves ----- he was charged with unlawful assembly ----so he was charged with this whether he was guilty or not is not the issue ----he still had to go through the process of being charged ----which put stress and strain on him and according to what I read his wife as well -----he had to go to court ---- he was suspended from his church because of his action -----All Sin has consequences ----it brings in guilt and shame to our conscious no matter the outcome in a court of law -----he already did his time going through the process of the charge -----

Dr Phil says this ---

 

[Luce NDs]

When god say be nice to the neighbour and the neighbour is generally told to go to hell alternately ... is this enlightening about denial processes?

No wonder many assume the chaos position ... quantum room ... an outer dimension within the core of the human bean?

Said to be small and dark like muse seed ... albeit tardy ... comes latently?

 

[GeoFee]

Hi,

This is from the text we have in view:

"Come near to God, and God will come near to you. You are sinners. So clean sin out of your lives. You are trying to follow God and the world at the same time. Make your thinking pure." ​

And this from Steven:

"I find that it challenges some of my basic assumptions about the nature of our relationship with God." ​

I grew up with the teaching of John Calvin as preached and taught by the Christian Reformed Church. In my early adolescence I clearly saw that what the Church's teaching was incongruent with its practice. Folk thought themselves as belonging to the right religion. All the while expressing convictions and practices rooted in the way of the world. These folk took success in the way of this world as a sign of God's blessing. They were not alone. The whole of Christendom in America represents what Canadian philosopher George Grant characterizes as a fruitful partnership of Calvinism with Capitalism. The way of God joined to the way of the world. An ubiquitous theme in the biblical narratives.

The story of my life would take many pages. At one point I made a decision. Seeing the world in a sad and sorry state I decided to act as if there was no God. To do what I could do to make the necessary difference. If God did not like it God could take over. This notion rooted in my reading of rabbinic literatures. The rabbi's did not have the high and holy approach to God that Christians do. They preferred engaging God in just the way they would engage a neighbour. Face to face and with plain speech. This is what I see in Jesus. God manifest as a person in relationship with persons. This in the hope of recovering what is lost, healing what is broken, and liberating those who are in bondage.

We may think of a son who made a decision to leave home. The journey of independence brought this son to a very low place. There he realized his error. He determined to return home, very fearful of the possible judgement on arrival. What a surprise to be welcomed and embraced. To be fully restored as a son in the family home. The key found in the determination for return.

Our enlightened civilization is rushing into a deep darkness. Our refusal of the way of God is evident as the increasing war of all against all. Nature is in distress and western humanity is in a deep neurotic state. It does not hear the voice within calling for repentance. The pattern is clear in the trajectory of a drug addicted person. Persistence in the pattern is sure to bring consequence deeply corrosive of human hope.

My actions in East Vancouver in 2002-2003 were symbolic. Like Jesus, I was badly treated by both State and Church. Let me be clear. I was not then and am not offended. The outcomes were one of two possibilities. Both State and Church could have been receptive to the word God had given me to pronounce. That they preferred refusal is a matter for which each party had its reasons. My analysis, rooted in prophetic imagination, is that both parties were, and probably still are, wholly grounded in the way of the world. My refusal and resistance of that way, informed by the spirit working in Jesus and Socrates, has left me outside the circles of approval and encouragement.

God is waiting with a wide open heart of love. Everyone who turns and returns will be embraced.

George

 

[GeoFee]

Hi,

All Sin has consequences

As does all righteous action. Jesus makes it plain that if we prefer and practice his way we will experience hard times by the hand of those who profit by the way of the world. We see this in the death of many martyrs. In every age spiritual darkness has worked to extinguish spiritual light. It has not succeeded.

George

 

[Waterfall]

@GeoFee, after all is said and done, did God bring you out of the storm to a place where you feel you are more effective being a servant for God?