If Paul is agreeing with James, then why do so many churches forget to preach the end result of faith producing works? I even hear it here...faith is all you need to do or have and you will be saved. Vary rarely do I hear people saying that if they have faith, they will be living a different life also, as in performing works through Christ. It isn't enough to just say you believe or have faith, it has to show also IMO. And I think that is where James is more clear than Paul.
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airclean33
Well-Known Member
Airclean --post --
Both you and BetteTheRed--Seem to think Jesus earthly brother came from Heaven" as did the Christ? He had no more contact with Christ " than both of you. He sinned same as us". Who dose The Bible say was Jesus brother? Did not Jesus The Christ" tell you , who " His Brothers and Sisters are"?
What???
GeoFee
I am who I am becoming...
Hi,
Notice the similarity between Amos and James:
We are called to be a peace filled presence in the earth. Bearing witness contrary to the powers by which the earth and its peoples are exploited and oppressed and by standing in solidarity with the excluded and the forsaken under their abusive jurisdiction.
George
Notice the similarity between Amos and James:
"Take away from me the noise of your songs; to the melody of your harps I will not listen. But let justice roll down like waters, and righteousness like an ever flowing stream." Amos
"What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead." James
The practices of religion alone are of no use if they do not include the work of mercy, justice and humility. Jesus has next to nothing to do with temple religion. He is out in the street taking care of those forsaken by the rich and the powerful. His parable of the last judgment says nothing about religious practice. It makes clear that the practice of compassionate inclusion among the wounded, the broken, the forsaken and the despised is the key opening the door to a heavenly reward. Heavenly not understood as the place you go when you die because of your correct doctrine. Heavenly understood as the fruits of the spirit present within us and through us into the world around us as we live lives of service to "the least of these my little ones"."What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead." James
We are called to be a peace filled presence in the earth. Bearing witness contrary to the powers by which the earth and its peoples are exploited and oppressed and by standing in solidarity with the excluded and the forsaken under their abusive jurisdiction.
George
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Waterfall -----this is a great question ----- why do so many churches forget to preach the end result of faith producing works?
I wonder this myself -----just maybe the Ministers don't know enough about Faith themselves to preach it properly or maybe it is not seen as that important ------James tells us about the 3 types of Faith ----non producing ---Intellectual and demonic faith and producing Saving Faith -----and for me it is so important for the Church to understand the difference but not many preach on it ----Charles Stanley comes to mind as one who preached on it ------
I wonder this myself -----just maybe the Ministers don't know enough about Faith themselves to preach it properly or maybe it is not seen as that important ------James tells us about the 3 types of Faith ----non producing ---Intellectual and demonic faith and producing Saving Faith -----and for me it is so important for the Church to understand the difference but not many preach on it ----Charles Stanley comes to mind as one who preached on it ------
Mendalla
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There's actually a popular UU hymn that incorporates these lines from Amos (and some from Isaiah, too). "We'll Build a Land" by Barbara Zanotti set to an arrangement of a tune written by Carolyn McDade. We sang it a lot in my fellowship. It's got a good, singable tune (natch for McDade) and a nice mix of spirituality and social justice in the lyrics.
A reflection on the hymn:
Reflection: We’ll Build a Land
Suitable for a Christian setting? Why not?
GeoFee
I am who I am becoming...
Hi,
George
What would you say are the works God leads us to accomplish? I am thinking of: "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."
George
unsafe
Well-Known Member
GeoFee ----your quote ----We are called to be a peace filled presence in the earth.
unsafe says
And how do you do that GeoFee ----that is the real question -----Are you always filled with the presents of peace GeoFee that you fill the earth with ---
GeoFee ---your quote -----Jesus is out in the street taking care of those forsaken by the rich and the powerful.
unsafe says and posted scripture
Jesus was out Preaching and obeying what His Father told Him to say --preach and do GeoFee ---Jesus did nothing on His own power -----He preached the Good News which was about a coming Salvation for all people and He showed what Agape was all about by not separating Himself from any humans no matter their status -----He showed what Mercy and Grace was all about ----
He turned Religious Leaders upside down on their heads for not practicing what they preach and setting bad examples for their Church ---and there are still today many Preachers doing what Jesus criticized the religious leaders of His time for doing -----
Matthew 23:1-22 (NLT)
Jesus Criticizes the Religious Leaders
23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The teachers of religious law and the Pharisees are the official interpreters of the law of Moses.3 So practice and obey whatever they tell you, but don’t follow their example. For they don’t practice what they teach. 4 They crush people with unbearable religious demands and never lift a finger to ease the burden.
unsafe says and posted scripture
This is the message Jesus preached ---and who it Honored ---Verse 51 is important here GeoFee ----that is His Main Message -----
John 8:48-51Good News Translation (GNT)
Jesus and Abraham
48 They asked Jesus, “Were we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon in you?”
49 “I have no demon,” Jesus answered. “I honor my Father, but you dishonor me. 50 I am not seeking honor for myself. But there is one who is seeking it and who judges in my favor.
51 I am telling you the truth: whoever obeys my teaching will never die.”
unsafe says and posted scripture ----
Jesus went after Religious Leaders and criticized them more than He went after the rich ---He talked about Greed and money matters but he never obsessed about rich people ----His main Focus was on Preaching what His Father wanted Him to Preach ----The Good News ----
God does not favor the Poor People over the Rich People ----both are called to Repent ---Both are in the same boat when it comes to Spiritual deadness or Spiritual aliveness -----Both will go to the same place if they reject Jesus -----one is no greater than the other ---both will go to the same place if they receive Jesus ----- God doesn't accept the poor first and reject the rich ----His face is turned from all sinner rich or poor -----
God is not a respecter of persons ----He respects and does His word--- Period -----
Jesus actually was around rich people and stayed in their homes see scripture below ----as seen here and this verse GeoFee ---here it is the one you dislike so much and say this is not the main focus of Jesus message ----- 9 Jesus said to him, “Salvation has come to this house today, for this man, also, is a descendant of Abraham. 10 The Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
Luke 19 (GNT)
Jesus and Zacchaeus
19 Jesus went on into Jericho and was passing through. 2 There was a chief tax collector there named Zacchaeus, who was rich. 3 He was trying to see who Jesus was, but he was a little man and could not see Jesus because of the crowd. 4 So he ran ahead of the crowd and climbed a sycamore tree to see Jesus, who was going to pass that way. 5 When Jesus came to that place, he looked up and said to Zacchaeus, “Hurry down, Zacchaeus, because I must stay in your house today.”
6 Zacchaeus hurried down and welcomed him with great joy. 7 All the people who saw it started grumbling, “This man has gone as a guest to the home of a sinner!”
8 Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Listen, sir! I will give half my belongings to the poor, and if I have cheated anyone, I will pay back four times as much.”
9 Jesus said to him, “Salvation has come to this house today, for this man, also, is a descendant of Abraham. 10 The Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
unsafe says and posted from article ----read more here -
http://margmowczko.com/martha-mary-and-lazarus-of-bethany/
Were Mary and Martha wealthy ???---Jesus knew them and was in their home ----
MARY AND MARTHA’S WEALTH
If we assume that the narratives about Mary and Martha were not set in a hospice run by an ascetic community, then they appear to have been wealthy women with a home large enough to accommodate Jesus and his entourage. Moreover, Mary had in her possession very expensive perfume which was worth a year’s wages (John 12:3-8). Or had the perfume been a donation from a wealthy benefactor for the work of the poor? Did Mary use perfume to anoint Jesus that was meant to be sold to help the poor? (See Matt. 26:8-9, 11; Mark 14:4-5, 7; John 12:4-5, 8.)
Jesus’ ministry was sponsored by Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Susanna, and many other women who accompanied Jesus and ministered to him out of their own, personal resources (Luke 8:2-3). It was uncommon, but not rare, for a woman to be independently wealthy, and/or a homeowner, in New Testament times.
unsafe says ---
So it seems Jesus wasn't obsessed with going after the Rich ----He was more focused on Salvation for all both rich and poor ----the Promises of scripture are for Both the rich and the poor -----The commands of scripture are directed at both d rich and poor -----Repent ---agape God and your neighbour ---be generous to all who need help while you are here on this planet serve God's will not our own will
Here is God's real message GeoFee -----to the rich and poor of this world
God's message is all about everyone to detach themselves from the things of this world and hold all material possessions loosely rely on the Holy Spirit to help us look and act with compassion on people who are hurting and need assistance ----so God gets the Glory for all good works that are done by us -----
Always Remember GeoFee when a Rich person dies all they had is useless to him ----they go out the same way they come in with nothing ----
unsafe says
And how do you do that GeoFee ----that is the real question -----Are you always filled with the presents of peace GeoFee that you fill the earth with ---
GeoFee ---your quote -----Jesus is out in the street taking care of those forsaken by the rich and the powerful.
unsafe says and posted scripture
Jesus was out Preaching and obeying what His Father told Him to say --preach and do GeoFee ---Jesus did nothing on His own power -----He preached the Good News which was about a coming Salvation for all people and He showed what Agape was all about by not separating Himself from any humans no matter their status -----He showed what Mercy and Grace was all about ----
He turned Religious Leaders upside down on their heads for not practicing what they preach and setting bad examples for their Church ---and there are still today many Preachers doing what Jesus criticized the religious leaders of His time for doing -----
Matthew 23:1-22 (NLT)
Jesus Criticizes the Religious Leaders
23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The teachers of religious law and the Pharisees are the official interpreters of the law of Moses.3 So practice and obey whatever they tell you, but don’t follow their example. For they don’t practice what they teach. 4 They crush people with unbearable religious demands and never lift a finger to ease the burden.
unsafe says and posted scripture
This is the message Jesus preached ---and who it Honored ---Verse 51 is important here GeoFee ----that is His Main Message -----
John 8:48-51Good News Translation (GNT)
Jesus and Abraham
48 They asked Jesus, “Were we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon in you?”
49 “I have no demon,” Jesus answered. “I honor my Father, but you dishonor me. 50 I am not seeking honor for myself. But there is one who is seeking it and who judges in my favor.
51 I am telling you the truth: whoever obeys my teaching will never die.”
unsafe says and posted scripture ----
Jesus went after Religious Leaders and criticized them more than He went after the rich ---He talked about Greed and money matters but he never obsessed about rich people ----His main Focus was on Preaching what His Father wanted Him to Preach ----The Good News ----
God does not favor the Poor People over the Rich People ----both are called to Repent ---Both are in the same boat when it comes to Spiritual deadness or Spiritual aliveness -----Both will go to the same place if they reject Jesus -----one is no greater than the other ---both will go to the same place if they receive Jesus ----- God doesn't accept the poor first and reject the rich ----His face is turned from all sinner rich or poor -----
God is not a respecter of persons ----He respects and does His word--- Period -----
Jesus actually was around rich people and stayed in their homes see scripture below ----as seen here and this verse GeoFee ---here it is the one you dislike so much and say this is not the main focus of Jesus message ----- 9 Jesus said to him, “Salvation has come to this house today, for this man, also, is a descendant of Abraham. 10 The Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
Luke 19 (GNT)
Jesus and Zacchaeus
19 Jesus went on into Jericho and was passing through. 2 There was a chief tax collector there named Zacchaeus, who was rich. 3 He was trying to see who Jesus was, but he was a little man and could not see Jesus because of the crowd. 4 So he ran ahead of the crowd and climbed a sycamore tree to see Jesus, who was going to pass that way. 5 When Jesus came to that place, he looked up and said to Zacchaeus, “Hurry down, Zacchaeus, because I must stay in your house today.”
6 Zacchaeus hurried down and welcomed him with great joy. 7 All the people who saw it started grumbling, “This man has gone as a guest to the home of a sinner!”
8 Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Listen, sir! I will give half my belongings to the poor, and if I have cheated anyone, I will pay back four times as much.”
9 Jesus said to him, “Salvation has come to this house today, for this man, also, is a descendant of Abraham. 10 The Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
unsafe says and posted from article ----read more here -
http://margmowczko.com/martha-mary-and-lazarus-of-bethany/
Were Mary and Martha wealthy ???---Jesus knew them and was in their home ----
MARY AND MARTHA’S WEALTH
If we assume that the narratives about Mary and Martha were not set in a hospice run by an ascetic community, then they appear to have been wealthy women with a home large enough to accommodate Jesus and his entourage. Moreover, Mary had in her possession very expensive perfume which was worth a year’s wages (John 12:3-8). Or had the perfume been a donation from a wealthy benefactor for the work of the poor? Did Mary use perfume to anoint Jesus that was meant to be sold to help the poor? (See Matt. 26:8-9, 11; Mark 14:4-5, 7; John 12:4-5, 8.)
Jesus’ ministry was sponsored by Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Susanna, and many other women who accompanied Jesus and ministered to him out of their own, personal resources (Luke 8:2-3). It was uncommon, but not rare, for a woman to be independently wealthy, and/or a homeowner, in New Testament times.
unsafe says ---
So it seems Jesus wasn't obsessed with going after the Rich ----He was more focused on Salvation for all both rich and poor ----the Promises of scripture are for Both the rich and the poor -----The commands of scripture are directed at both d rich and poor -----Repent ---agape God and your neighbour ---be generous to all who need help while you are here on this planet serve God's will not our own will
Here is God's real message GeoFee -----to the rich and poor of this world
God's message is all about everyone to detach themselves from the things of this world and hold all material possessions loosely rely on the Holy Spirit to help us look and act with compassion on people who are hurting and need assistance ----so God gets the Glory for all good works that are done by us -----
Always Remember GeoFee when a Rich person dies all they had is useless to him ----they go out the same way they come in with nothing ----
unsafe
Well-Known Member
GeoFee ---just to clarify ---I didn't say this statement --- Waterfall said it ---I replied to her quote ----
unsafe said: ↑
...why do so many churches forget to preach the end result of faith producing works?
GeoFee ---your quote ----What would you say are the works God leads us to accomplish?
unsafe says
I don't know about you but the Holy Spirit directs my works and God gets the Glory for all the good works that I have done and will continue to do
unsafe said: ↑
...why do so many churches forget to preach the end result of faith producing works?
GeoFee ---your quote ----What would you say are the works God leads us to accomplish?
unsafe says
I don't know about you but the Holy Spirit directs my works and God gets the Glory for all the good works that I have done and will continue to do
paradox3
Peanuts Fan
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- She/Her/Her
Lovely! I know I have heard it before but can't say if it was at church or at a folk festival.
GeoFee
I am who I am becoming...
Hi,
I would like to look a little closer at the works Jesus did in obedience to the spirit of God. First there is the reading of Isaiah in the Nazareth synagogue. This seems to me to spell out what the Holy Spirit is authorizing and equipping Jesus to accomplish. It is quite unambiguous. He is called to bring the love of God into the experience of the broken, the lost, the forsaken and the despised. This is what we see him doing as he travels from village to village in Palestine.
One day the Baptist sends a question to Jesus. He wants to know if Jesus is the one people have been looking for, the Messiah. Jesus points to what he has been doing in the land. The excluded and the oppressed are being liberated and gathered into the love of God (the bosom of Abraham). He ends by saying the poor are hearing good news. The way of the world is being judged and the way of heaven is being revealed. For this the religious and political elites murder him. As they will do to any who take the way of Jesus as their own way in the world. Not a religion about Jesus. Rather, persons who read Isaiah as Jesus did and testify that these prophetic words have come alive in us. The vision of Isaiah is the vision of Jesus. So should the vision of Jesus be our vision.
I say such things as one who has been arrested for speaking out in solidarity with the broken poor in our land. I have also been punished by the United Church for living in community with the broken poor. One of the saddest of my experiences is the day UC leaders came with Police officers and a Garbage truck. They forced the broken poor from the sanctuary of the Church and into the streets of Vancouver's East side. Where Robert Picton was butchering street sex workers on his pig farm.
If even three hundred Christians were to step out and follow the way of Jesus the world would take notice. Instead the world is losing interest in Christianity as they watch Christians have their cake and eat it too. Somehow imagining that they are able to serve God and money. I am not saying we are not to use money. I am saying we are not to allow money to lead our way forward. It is to be invested in the promise of justice, without which there can be no peace. It is not to be invested in the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh and the boastful pride of life. The three strands of the capitalist noose which is now tightening around our human necks. Ready and willing to choke the life out of us for profit and power.
George
Well done. This seems to be quite similar to the attitude we see in Jesus.
I would like to look a little closer at the works Jesus did in obedience to the spirit of God. First there is the reading of Isaiah in the Nazareth synagogue. This seems to me to spell out what the Holy Spirit is authorizing and equipping Jesus to accomplish. It is quite unambiguous. He is called to bring the love of God into the experience of the broken, the lost, the forsaken and the despised. This is what we see him doing as he travels from village to village in Palestine.
One day the Baptist sends a question to Jesus. He wants to know if Jesus is the one people have been looking for, the Messiah. Jesus points to what he has been doing in the land. The excluded and the oppressed are being liberated and gathered into the love of God (the bosom of Abraham). He ends by saying the poor are hearing good news. The way of the world is being judged and the way of heaven is being revealed. For this the religious and political elites murder him. As they will do to any who take the way of Jesus as their own way in the world. Not a religion about Jesus. Rather, persons who read Isaiah as Jesus did and testify that these prophetic words have come alive in us. The vision of Isaiah is the vision of Jesus. So should the vision of Jesus be our vision.
I say such things as one who has been arrested for speaking out in solidarity with the broken poor in our land. I have also been punished by the United Church for living in community with the broken poor. One of the saddest of my experiences is the day UC leaders came with Police officers and a Garbage truck. They forced the broken poor from the sanctuary of the Church and into the streets of Vancouver's East side. Where Robert Picton was butchering street sex workers on his pig farm.
If even three hundred Christians were to step out and follow the way of Jesus the world would take notice. Instead the world is losing interest in Christianity as they watch Christians have their cake and eat it too. Somehow imagining that they are able to serve God and money. I am not saying we are not to use money. I am saying we are not to allow money to lead our way forward. It is to be invested in the promise of justice, without which there can be no peace. It is not to be invested in the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh and the boastful pride of life. The three strands of the capitalist noose which is now tightening around our human necks. Ready and willing to choke the life out of us for profit and power.
George
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GeoFee
I am who I am becoming...
Hi,
Who I am in this one dimensional space is not adequate to reveal who I am in three dimensional time and space.
George
This sounds like the Jesus I follow. Like Jesus I do nothing in my own power, I communicate good news of repentance, return and redemption, and the love of God living in and through me shines in the darkness of our times as mercy and grace.
Who I am in this one dimensional space is not adequate to reveal who I am in three dimensional time and space.
George
unsafe
Well-Known Member
GeoFee ---your quote -----I say such things as one who has been arrested for speaking out in solidarity with the broken poor in our land. I have also been punished by the United Church for living in community with the broken poor. One of the saddest of my experiences is the day UC leaders came with Police officers and a Garbage truck. They forced the broken poor from the sanctuary of the Church and into the streets of Vancouver's East side. Where Robert Picton was butchering street sex workers on his pig farm.
unsafe says
So what are you saying here GeoFee --that you went to jail for the poor ---do you not think the rich are poor people as well that need help to be saved and looked after Spiritually as well as the poor who have nothing ---- both are dead Spiritually ----both need saving -----do you not think that people like Robert Pectin who was murdering people needs help to find the light and be saved and hear the Gospel of the Good News being preached -----God says Love --Agape your neighbour ----is your neighbour GeoFee only 1 class of people -----and the Hell with the rest ---
unsafe says and posted scripture --
You pick out one group and go to jail for them and leave the rest to stay dead in their sins ------Love your neighbour is for all people not just one group of people ----
You think it was a smart thing for you to go against your Church and do as you please and blame them for your bad actions and consequences ---The Church is for all Spiritually poor people --and anyone without the Holy Spirit indwelling in them are Poor in Spirit no matter what the possess physically in this world -----
What about this scripture ----
Romans 13 (GNT)
Duties toward State Authorities
13Everyone must obey state authorities, because no authority exists without God's permission, and the existing authorities have been put there by God.
2 Whoever opposes the existing authority opposes what God has ordered; and anyone who does so will bring judgment on himself.
3 For rulers are not to be feared by those who do good, but by those who do evil. Would you like to be unafraid of those in authority? Then do what is good, and they will praise you, 4 because they are God's servants working for your own good. But if you do evil, then be afraid of them, because their power to punish is real. They are God's servants and carry out God's punishment on those who do evil.
5 For this reason you must obey the authorities—not just because of God's punishment, but also as a matter of conscience.
unsafe says ---and posted scripture
Here is the scripture that you talk about here GeoFee in your above post ---but you need this scripture to get the full message ---
Luke 4 GNT
Jesus Begins His Work in Galilee)
14 Then Jesus returned to Galilee, and the power of the Holy Spirit was with him. The news about him spread throughout all that territory. 15 He taught in the synagogues and was praised by everyone.
unsafe says
Notice Here GeoFee ----the power of the Holy Spirit was with him -----He has direction He is not acting on His own power
unsafe posted scripture
Jesus Is Rejected at Nazareth
16 Then Jesus went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath he went as usual to the synagogue. He stood up to read the Scriptures 17 and was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it is written,
18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,
because he has chosen me to bring good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives
and recovery of sight to the blind,
to set free the oppressed
19 and announce that the time has come
when the Lord will save his people.”
20 Jesus rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant, and sat down.
unsafe says
This passage is all a Spiritual Message ----
bring good news to the poor.---the poor in spirit ---all people rich --poor ----sick ---wounded ---and weary ---etc
proclaim liberty to the captives ----who are the captives ----anyone who is in bondage to the god of this world anyone who is in bondage to other people ---anyone who is in bondage to their emotions ---anyone who is in bondage to their possessions ----the rich ---the poor--- the lsick --the weary --etc
recovery of sight to the blind ----who are the Blind ---anyone who cannot see the light of the Gospel -----their minds have been blinded to the Gospel message -----the rich ---the poor ---the sick ---the weary ----
set free the oppressed -----Who are the oppressed ----anyone who is weighed down with many burdens ---can be worldly strain or demonic ---the rich and the poor ---the sick ---the weary ---
GeoFee ---all walks of life need to hear the Gospel message -----all are in need of spiritual healing and Salvation -----putting our Faith in action is not just for the poor ---it includes all humans beings ---no matter their status in this world -------
I like this sign --- it says it all for me ----
unsafe says
So what are you saying here GeoFee --that you went to jail for the poor ---do you not think the rich are poor people as well that need help to be saved and looked after Spiritually as well as the poor who have nothing ---- both are dead Spiritually ----both need saving -----do you not think that people like Robert Pectin who was murdering people needs help to find the light and be saved and hear the Gospel of the Good News being preached -----God says Love --Agape your neighbour ----is your neighbour GeoFee only 1 class of people -----and the Hell with the rest ---
unsafe says and posted scripture --
You pick out one group and go to jail for them and leave the rest to stay dead in their sins ------Love your neighbour is for all people not just one group of people ----
You think it was a smart thing for you to go against your Church and do as you please and blame them for your bad actions and consequences ---The Church is for all Spiritually poor people --and anyone without the Holy Spirit indwelling in them are Poor in Spirit no matter what the possess physically in this world -----
What about this scripture ----
Romans 13 (GNT)
Duties toward State Authorities
13Everyone must obey state authorities, because no authority exists without God's permission, and the existing authorities have been put there by God.
2 Whoever opposes the existing authority opposes what God has ordered; and anyone who does so will bring judgment on himself.
3 For rulers are not to be feared by those who do good, but by those who do evil. Would you like to be unafraid of those in authority? Then do what is good, and they will praise you, 4 because they are God's servants working for your own good. But if you do evil, then be afraid of them, because their power to punish is real. They are God's servants and carry out God's punishment on those who do evil.
5 For this reason you must obey the authorities—not just because of God's punishment, but also as a matter of conscience.
unsafe says ---and posted scripture
Here is the scripture that you talk about here GeoFee in your above post ---but you need this scripture to get the full message ---
Luke 4 GNT
Jesus Begins His Work in Galilee)
14 Then Jesus returned to Galilee, and the power of the Holy Spirit was with him. The news about him spread throughout all that territory. 15 He taught in the synagogues and was praised by everyone.
unsafe says
Notice Here GeoFee ----the power of the Holy Spirit was with him -----He has direction He is not acting on His own power
unsafe posted scripture
Jesus Is Rejected at Nazareth
16 Then Jesus went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath he went as usual to the synagogue. He stood up to read the Scriptures 17 and was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it is written,
18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,
because he has chosen me to bring good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives
and recovery of sight to the blind,
to set free the oppressed
19 and announce that the time has come
when the Lord will save his people.”
20 Jesus rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant, and sat down.
unsafe says
This passage is all a Spiritual Message ----
bring good news to the poor.---the poor in spirit ---all people rich --poor ----sick ---wounded ---and weary ---etc
proclaim liberty to the captives ----who are the captives ----anyone who is in bondage to the god of this world anyone who is in bondage to other people ---anyone who is in bondage to their emotions ---anyone who is in bondage to their possessions ----the rich ---the poor--- the lsick --the weary --etc
recovery of sight to the blind ----who are the Blind ---anyone who cannot see the light of the Gospel -----their minds have been blinded to the Gospel message -----the rich ---the poor ---the sick ---the weary ----
set free the oppressed -----Who are the oppressed ----anyone who is weighed down with many burdens ---can be worldly strain or demonic ---the rich and the poor ---the sick ---the weary ---
GeoFee ---all walks of life need to hear the Gospel message -----all are in need of spiritual healing and Salvation -----putting our Faith in action is not just for the poor ---it includes all humans beings ---no matter their status in this world -------
I like this sign --- it says it all for me ----
revjohn
Well-Known Member
unsafe said:
Not exactly I think.
He didn't go to jail in their place. He was jailed because he dared to take up the cause of people he was called to serve and part of that was because his Presbytery, at the time, decided his advocacy failed to represent his congregation or the wider Church.
Jail was a result of earthly authorities flexing their muscle. His fitness Review was a result of denominational courts flexing theirs.
Think what you like about how GeoFee expresses his Christian conviction, he has more integrity than many since he has suffered beatings for it.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
revjohn ----with all due respect to you ---I did a bit of research on this that GeoFee posted to do with the poor and I did find a sight that posted what happened as I wanted to understand more as to why this happened to GeoFee -----he himself brought this up in his post -----
From what I have read ----he had 2 altercations --he was charged because he was protesting unlawfully and wearing a clown nose and had an altercation with a police officer and was making fun of politicians --he spent 24 hours in a jail for this incident as far as I can make out --- then he allowed homeless people in his church and the neighbours complained out of fear -- and the church stepped in -----he was suspended for a time for this ----and allowed back to church with the condition that he not engage in risky social action -----
So for me this was not from God in my view ----This was someone acting on their own power --- I understand that GeoFee always has good intentions and is a man of God at heart trying to help the helpless and this is a good thing to do --I just think it works better and victory will result if God is the director not ourselves -----that s just my view ---
From what I have read ----he had 2 altercations --he was charged because he was protesting unlawfully and wearing a clown nose and had an altercation with a police officer and was making fun of politicians --he spent 24 hours in a jail for this incident as far as I can make out --- then he allowed homeless people in his church and the neighbours complained out of fear -- and the church stepped in -----he was suspended for a time for this ----and allowed back to church with the condition that he not engage in risky social action -----
So for me this was not from God in my view ----This was someone acting on their own power --- I understand that GeoFee always has good intentions and is a man of God at heart trying to help the helpless and this is a good thing to do --I just think it works better and victory will result if God is the director not ourselves -----that s just my view ---
BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
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"-he was charged because he was protesting unlawfully and wearing a clown nose and had an altercation with a police officer and was making fun of politicians"
In what universe that trumpets "freedom" does this make any sense at all?
In what universe that trumpets "freedom" does this make any sense at all?
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
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It's the same universe that nailed a guy who taught forgiveness and love for one's enemies to a cross. IOW, makes perfect sense to me. Sadly.