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And, incidentally, organized religion has played a part in that division as well. Not saying religion or faith per se is bad, as chansen might, but that organized religion has been co-opted by nationalism in the modern era to help promote its divisions (e.g. the notion that America or Israel or whatever is "God's nation") and has also created its own divisions through the walls erected between traditions and denominations.
 
Waterfall ---your quote -----Jesus tells us, "to seek first the Kingdom and His righteousness and all these things will be added to you" and claims this is the primary reason He has been sent.

unsafe says and posted scripture
Waterfall this small piece of scripture you quote is from the Sermon on the Mount and comes under the last section of His Sermon in Matthew 6 on Worry ---it has nothing to do with Salvation ----Luke 4 is why Jesus came --I posted it at the bottom ---to preach the Good News

Stop Worrying
25 “So I tell you to stop worrying about what you will eat, drink, or wear. Isn’t life more than food and the body more than clothes?
26 “Look at the birds. They don’t plant, harvest, or gather the harvest into barns. Yet, your heavenly Father feeds them. Aren’t you worth more than they?
27 “Can any of you add a single hour to your life by worrying?

verse 33-34 ---- 33 But first, be concerned about his kingdom and what has his approval. Then all these things will be provided for you.
34 “So don’t ever worry about tomorrow. After all, tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

unsafe says and posted scripture
Jesus came for this Reason -----Jesus is speaking here ----

Luke 4:42-44 (GW)
Spreading the Good News
42 In the morning he went to a place where he could be alone. The crowds searched for him. When they came to him, they tried to keep him from leaving. 43 But he said to them, “I have to tell the Good News about God’s kingdom in other cities also. That’s what I was sent to do.”



Waterfall ---your quote ----The message of salvation is called "the word of this Kingdom" in Mathew.

unsafe says and posted scripture
The scripture you speak of here ----is not about Salvation -----it is Matthew 13 ---it is about sowing and reaping ----

Matthew 13:18-23 (GW)
A Story about a Farmer
18 “Listen to what the story about the farmer means. 19 Someone hears the word about the kingdom but doesn’t understand it. The evil one comes at once and snatches away what was planted in him. This is what the seed planted along the road illustrates. 20 The seed planted on rocky ground is the person who hears the word and accepts it at once with joy. 21 Since he doesn’t have any root, he lasts only a little while. When suffering or persecution comes along because of the word, he immediately falls from faith. 22 The seed planted among thornbushes is another person who hears the word. But the worries of life and the deceitful pleasures of riches choke the word so that it can’t produce anything. 23 But the seed planted on good ground is the person who hears and understands the word. This type produces crops. They produce one hundred, sixty, or thirty times as much as was planted.”

unsafe says ----and posted scripture
And what did Jesus say to His Disciples ----what were they to go and Preach -----Lets See

Mark 16 GNT
Jesus Appears to the Eleven
14 Last of all, Jesus appeared to the eleven disciples as they were eating. He scolded them, because they did not have faith and because they were too stubborn to believe those who had seen him alive.

15 He said to them, “Go throughout the whole world and preach the gospel to all people. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned.


Waterfall your Quote ------Geo speaks of salvation through God's kingdom on earth.

unsafe says and quotes GeoFee
Waterfall show me where GeoFee speaks of Salvation through God's Kingdom on earth ---GeoFee has admitted that he feels this about speaking or preaching about Salvation ---His quote here from post #594 about Salvation----------For some this is the case. I do not see this as the main thrust of the biblical revelation.

unsafe says
So here we see him say that Salvation is not the main theme of the The Gospel ------which goes against what Jesus says about why He came --Jesus preached what His Father told Him to preach which was the Good News which is all about Salvation ----Salvation is the main focus of True Christianity ----and GeoFee says the opposite -----

Securing a place in heaven is the most important thing a person can do for themselves as we will all die one day and we have no idea the day or the hour we will meet this fate ----

Many people leave their house in the morning and never return to their physical home ----you just don't know when your time is up -----

Put first things first ---secure your Church with God --Preach Salvation ---then with God in you go out and do good works directed by God in you and give Him the Glory----when all you do is done in victory through Him ----not yourself ----
 
The heart of God's message is the Kingdom of God IMO. The Sermon on the mount is God's vision on how His Kingdom will look and the ethics of the Kingdom. He advises his disciples to seek perfection and the Kingdom of God. This is the gospel in my opinion. God/Jesus will rule the Kingdom, but He is not the gospel. His gospel is about the Kingdom of Heaven and He is the messenger leading us toward salvation.
 
Hi,
unsafe said:
So here we see him say that Salvation is not the main theme of the The Gospel
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This is not quite true. I do not think salvation from hell and for heaven is the gospel's primary concern. Jesus does not say the beggar will be in heaven following death. He does say rise up and walk. I see humanity lost in the deep darkness. I see Jesus offering light. Light by which the darkness is displaced. Light manifest as service to the broken and the forsaken in the land, and the land itself.

Salvation is healing of heart, mind, body and soul; on earth as in heaven. Salvation is recovery of those who were lost.

I will give the example of a young woman I met along my way. She was a street prostitude addicted to crack cocaine. With our church community I welcomed, supported and encouraged her. Three years later she came to the Sunday morning service, free of addiction and off the street. She had a husband and a child just born. She came to thank God and the Community gathered in God's name. This is what I mean by salvation. The business of who goes to heaven and who goes to hell is of no concern to me. I leave it wholly in the hands of God, saying, with Jesus, not my will but thine be done.

George
 
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revsdd said:
In the case of Caleb - and really all of Israel's conquests - I do not believe that the image of a God who commands genocide (because that's what it is) is a revelation of God's nature. How then - given that all Scripture is true and profitable and useful - do such passages work?
.
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I'm curious about how you divorce exodus theology from Promised Land theology. Are they not inseparable? The liberated slaves had to find arable land to cultivate and inhabit. But that land was largely restricted to Canaan, which was already occupied by tribes who were unwilling to accommodate newbies. So in a kill-or-be=killed world, just where do you imagine these liberated Hebrew slaves should have gone?
 
BetteTheRed said:
Right, airclean, because I base my belief system on what it is possible to know in the here and now. Any speculation about afterlife is just that - speculation, and hardly productive speculation, since the 'answer' is absolutely un-knowable.

There are so many things that humans can do about reality that chiding other humans about their likelihood of ending up in an imaginary hell seems...petty, futile, pointless.
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--Hi BetteTheRed---

I take it Bette you have not been around to many , of those called Born again's". We live with GOD" with us "
He who is The Great I Am". We don't know any more than another person". But we do have Him in us helping us to understand His Way. For He" and He" alone , know 's all thing's". It is called the infilling of GODS" Holy Spirit". He made all of us, we call Him" our Father". But really He" is more than this. For He GOD', is Father" to every thing" that has Life. The God we walk with is the one who made All" things you see in the flesh an much more you cannot see in The flesh. Please believe me when I say . After you leave this flesh" you will be able to see Him". An His wonderful Kingdom" where I believe you came from," and really do belong.
 
airclean, my life is littered with Born Agains. I drive with my ex-mother-in-law to Montreal every summer. She's a Free Methodist, and we listen to sermons in the car on the way there and back. We visit with my ex-sister-in-law who is Pentecostal Assemblies. So, yeah, I know a lot about Born Agains. Nice people. Peculiar theology.
 
Waterfall said:
Jesus tells us, "to seek first the Kingdom and His righteousness and all these things will be added to you" and claims this is the primary reason He has been sent. Jesus preached the Gospel of the Kingdom above all else..The message of salvation is called "the word of this Kingdom" in Mathew.

Unsafe you speak of salvation through faith and Geo speaks of salvation through God's kingdom on earth. Does one not need faith and belief for God's Kingdom to come? I think you both might be saying the same thing.
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--So Waterfall how is it , you become a part of The Kingdom " of GOD"?
 
BetteTheRed said:
airclean, my life is littered with Born Agains. I drive with my ex-mother-in-law to Montreal every summer. She's a Free Methodist, and we listen to sermons in the car on the way there and back. We visit with my ex-sister-in-law who is Pentecostal Assemblies. So, yeah, I know a lot about Born Agains. Nice people. Peculiar theology.
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-- This don't make it better Bette . By the way you were posting I thought you had very little contact with a Born again person". Now you tell me you have, but I guess, you have not been listening to them", But you have decided when your flesh die's , Your spirit should die to. For they would have shown the way to life" eternal . For all Mankind" there is but One Way". I believe that to be through Christ Jesus" our Lord.
 
airclean, I don't agree with their theology. I have a perfectly adequate theology myself, that works for me and for my life. I get along beautifully with my ex-in-laws, although we're somewhat hesitant to talk theology, particularly at the dinner table, lol. They have certainly never indicated any worry that I might be destined for hell. (In fact, it's a family in-joke that M-I-L's minister thinks her late husband was destined for the brimstone...) A certain inclusivism isn't unknown among "Born Agains"...
 
BetteTheRed said:
airclean, I don't agree with their theology. I have a perfectly adequate theology myself, that works for me and for my life. I get along beautifully with my ex-in-laws, although we're somewhat hesitant to talk theology, particularly at the dinner table, lol. They have certainly never indicated any worry that I might be destined for hell. (In fact, it's a family in-joke that M-I-L's minister thinks her late husband was destined for the brimstone...) A certain inclusivism isn't unknown among "Born Agains"...
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--Hi BetteTheRed--
I am Happy you have a way". I have power to Judge others" . But I have never found any use, in using it". Your Walk, is your choice , I will try very hard not to step on it. This dose not mean we now think the same though." So we have a chance" of talking again. airclean33--Gord.
 
I'm going to suggest, gently, airclean, that like every other human on earth, you have an obligation to judge exactly one person - yourself.
 
BetteTheRed said:
airclean, my life is littered with Born Agains. I drive with my ex-mother-in-law to Montreal every summer. She's a Free Methodist, and we listen to sermons in the car on the way there and back. We visit with my ex-sister-in-law who is Pentecostal Assemblies. So, yeah, I know a lot about Born Agains. Nice people. Peculiar theology.
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Peculiar indeed, until you experience born again
 
BetteTheRed said:
I'm going to suggest, gently, airclean, that like every other human on earth, you have an obligation to judge exactly one person - yourself.
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Well what do you know", how soon " are talk comes around". You believe by your own mind". Where as , I believe by GODS Word". airclean33- Gord.
 
Uh, no, airclean, that's not what I believe. I believe that the Bible, both the Hebrew scriptures, and the New Testament, are descriptions, in a lot of different formats, of some of humanity's relationship with the divine. There's tons of evidence to that effect, both scholarly, and honestly, from a hard, solid, objective look at the texts themselves. I read the Bible all the time. I get lots out of it. But I never fool myself that "God" wrote it, when it is so clearly a human literary construct.
 
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