Muslims & Christians: Same God?

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Pr. Jae said:
airclean, in the scripture I gave, Jesus says that he, Jesus, came down from heaven. He did not say, "the Christ came down from heaven" What do you make of that?
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--I believe The man Jesus , that is the flesh came from His mother Mary. I believe The Spirit of Jesus came from heaven as The Bible states From GOD. Again you best look at your Bible Jae.

Jesus was the same as you or me. Flesh and spirit. His Spirit though was GOD , you need not try and understand it . GOD is not like a man that we should try and think how many place can GOD be at one time?
 
Pr. Jae said:
airclean, you seem to believe that the words you underlined should be of special notice to me. What is it you want me to notice? You especially indicated "carried out in God." What special significance do you want me to see in those words?
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--Airclean--post--
GOD Jae , It is really GOD" who should show you the meaning, I could go on, an on. You still won't understand. Listen to the first line.

GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY SON.

You don't have to move Jae, GOD just made the first movement. His Love For You. You just say ok.

Jae---carried out in God”---ALL GLORY IS GODS.
 
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Pr. Jae said:
Which is a different thing than the modern, evangelical notion of "accepting Jesus into your heart."
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Are they an acceptance of an emotional experience (which can be declared and documented, but not 'proven'), or a rational response to reality?

I believe in gravity.

I trust in the ultimate (not personal) benevolence of the Universe (and that trust was established via personal, undocumentable experience, which is probably just mis-firing neurons near the god-spot...)
 
BetteTheRed said:
Are they an acceptance of an emotional experience (which can be declared and documented, but not 'proven'), or a rational response to reality?
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Those who believe in accepting Jesus into one's heart Bette would say that it isn't just an emotional experience - because they believe that something real and spiritual is going on. We are commonly taught as Baptists that accepting Christ is a rational response - although those words are seldom used. One is expected by us to rationally know the right doctrines when one chooses a life of following Christ.

BTR said:
I believe in gravity.

I trust in the ultimate (not personal) benevolence of the Universe (and that trust was established via personal, undocumentable experience, which is probably just mis-firing neurons near the god-spot...)
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Jae has expressed his concern that readers have not taken his excerpts and summaries from Miroslav Volf's book seriously. Well, I certainly have and am grateful for Jae's postings. I once used Volf's book on forgiveness "Free of Charge" as a source of inspiration for a sermon and was prepared to recommend Volf's other books on the strength of that book. Not any more. Jae, you have convinced me to discourage believers from reading Volf's books and to recommend other books on divine forgiveness instead.

The topic of the differences and similarities between Allah and Yahweh has been discussed here. But far more relevant are the practical implications of thousands of devout Muslims who have been converted to Christianity through visions. I've already posted some examples, but the case posted below from YouTube is the most moving. Kamal was a 'cultural jihadist" who came to America to convert people to Islam. After a time of crisis, he challenges Allah to make Himself real, and nothing happens. Then he experimentally issues the same challenge to Yahweh and receives a vision of the divine Jesus, which totally transforms his life. I think those who view Kamal's testimony will be deeply moved:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...E2EDD28232DE0C1555CDE2EDD28232DE0C1&FORM=VIRE
 
Mystic said:
Jae has expressed his concern that readers have not taken his excerpts and summaries from Miroslav Volf's book seriously. Well, I certainly have and am grateful for Jae's postings. I once used Volf's book on forgiveness "Free of Charge" as a source of inspiration for a sermon and was prepared to recommend Volf's other books on the strength of that book. Not any more. Jae, you have convinced me to discourage believers from reading Volf's books and to recommend other books on divine forgiveness instead.

The topic of the differences and similarities between Allah and Yahweh has been discussed here. But far more relevant are the practical implications of thousands of devout Muslims who have been converted to Christianity through visions. I've already posted some examples, but the case posted below from YouTube is the most moving. Kamal was a 'cultural jihadist" who came to America to convert people to Islam. After a time of crisis, he challenges Allah to make Himself real, and nothing happens. Then he experimentally issues the same challenge to Yahweh and receives a vision of the divine Jesus, which totally transforms his life. I think those who view Kamal's testimony will be deeply moved:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=kamal youtube muslim cnnvert cbn&view=detail&mid=555CDE2EDD28232DE0C1555CDE2EDD28232DE0C1&FORM=VIRE
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Mystic said:
Jae has expressed his concern that readers have not taken his excerpts and summaries from Miroslav Volf's book seriously. Well, I certainly have and am grateful for Jae's postings. I once used Volf's book on forgiveness "Free of Charge" as a source of inspiration for a sermon and was prepared to recommend Volf's other books on the strength of that book. Not any more. Jae, you have convinced me to discourage believers from reading Volf's books and to recommend other books on divine forgiveness instead.

The topic of the differences and similarities between Allah and Yahweh has been discussed here. But far more relevant are the practical implications of thousands of devout Muslims who have been converted to Christianity through visions. I've already posted some examples, but the case posted below from YouTube is the most moving. Kamal was a 'cultural jihadist" who came to America to convert people to Islam. After a time of crisis, he challenges Allah to make Himself real, and nothing happens. Then he experimentally issues the same challenge to Yahweh and receives a vision of the divine Jesus, which totally transforms his life. I think those who view Kamal's testimony will be deeply moved:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=kamal youtube muslim cnnvert cbn&view=detail&mid=555CDE2EDD28232DE0C1555CDE2EDD28232DE0C1&FORM=VIRE
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Why are the Muslims converting to Christianity more "relevant" than the other way around? Seems to me that there are a growing number of Christians converting to Muslim these days. But despite the numbers, why is one more "relevant" than the other? Maybe it's the "practical implications" that I wonder about..
 
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I don't get it, either. Having just come from a wonderful Jewish shabbat, I think of them as culturally different, but appropriate, responses to the Divine.

I shudder at the thought of Ramadan. It is more discipline than I can achieve, particularly when it happens in the summer, because I get REALLY grumpy when I'm hungry.

But I LOVE the idea of prayer five times a day.

I hate the idea of giving up pork (I really love bacon/ham as seasoning meats where a little goes a long way and pastry is impossible to make/use reliably without lard),

I adore the shabbat and the reverence of ancient language/liturgy and the shul - the passionate arguing about a word, a passage.

Hindu yoga makes sense to me, and their food is the best.

Buddhists have meditation and a resolution of god talk (none).

And there's no-one more pragmatic than a Confucian, although their conclusions discomfit many.

Why must one be BEST? Why isn't it healthiest to pick one (if you feel a yearning for spirituality) and pursue the best of other traditions to supplement your religious practice?
 
Neo said:
Why are the Muslims converting to Christianity more "relevant" than the other way around? Seems to me that there are a growing number of Christians converting to Muslim these days. But despite the numbers, why is one more "relevant" than the other? Maybe it's the "practical implications" that I wonder about..
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Conversions from a dead form of piety like the typical nonmystical UCCan version are understandable. Mainline denominatons in North America are experiencing full-scale decline, whereas the charismatic and Pentecostal denominations are growing in leaps and bounds because they are excitingly experience-based. The fastest growing church in the world is the Iranian house church movement. I have read estimtes of 1 million recent converts. Some of the converts from Islam themselves suggest that about 80% of the conversions are catalyzed by visions of Jesus. The internet is full of such Muslism visionary testimonies and I have just posted one of the most inspiring above. One such ex-Muslim visionary came to my chruch with the Ugandan children's choir. So ask yourself: how many nominal Christians convert to islam, and more importantly, how many are converted through visions of Muhammad or Allah? Enough said.
 
BetteTheRed said:
Why must one be BEST? Why isn't it healthiest to pick one (if you feel a yearning for spirituality) and pursue the best of other traditions to supplement your religious practice?
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If however you truly feel one is best for you, why pick and choose from the other traditions to supplement it?
 
I don't believe any religion is the right religion, I see them more like ladders to a roof. If you get to that roof top through honestly, sincerity, right human relations, etc, then that religion has done a good job. Once on the roof we can discard our personal belief structures, or pass them on those who are still in ascent. Religions are only the means to the end.
 
Neo said:
I don't believe any religion is the right religion, I see them more like ladders to a roof. If you get to that roof top through honestly, sincerity, right human relations, etc, then that religion has done a good job. Once on the roof we can discard our personal belief structures, or pass them on those who are still in ascent. Religions are only the means to the end.
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I prefer the old, rugged ladder. It's good enough for me.
 
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Pr. Jae said:
If however you truly feel one is best for you, why pick and choose from the other traditions to supplement it?
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Because, like the old Hindu parable of the people touching the elephant, we none of us get it entirely right. Another answer. Neither is right. Mine is best for me. I'm a "best practices" kinda gal...
 
The bottom line is this: The risen Jesus calls us to evangelize non-believers in His Great Commission. For Jesus discipleship takes precedent over everything, else including service to the poor (see John 12:1-9), though Jesus calls us to minister to the poor. So we can become true disciples and seek to convert Muslims (as they rightly strive to convert Christians) or we can use Jesus as a working construct for meaning and cherry-pick what we like and dislike. Preference for the latter option helps explain why people are jumping out of the windows to flee mainline churches like the UCCan.

For Jesus, the greatest commandment is to love God as Lord with all our heart, soul, and mind. Loving our neighbor as ourselves is the second greatest. This truth is not negated by the fact that love for neighbor is an inextricable aspect of love for God. IMO, many altruistic Christians negate their spirituality by treating as optional a passionate love for God.
 
How about "A bottom line? Why do you refuse options? What gets you to the "my way or the highway" point? It's not Jesus, who loved prostitutes and tax collectors.
 
BetteTheRed said:
How about "A bottom line? Why do you refuse options? What gets you to the "my way or the highway" point?

Jesus' own teaching.

Bette: It's not Jesus, who loved prostitutes and tax collectors.
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On the contrary, Jesus places special stress on compassion for the socially marginalized, all the while demanding total allegiance to His lordship.
 
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