Luke 6: A Verse (or Two) at a Time

[Mystic]

Are you praying for Biden's well being?

Yes

Did you notice that loving someone does not require allowing them to harm others.

Yes, and I've noticed with millions of Americans, that Trump has been the greatest blessing for America of any president in my lifetime--despite his overly combative style!

You interpreted opposing him as a candidate as not loving him.

Yes, and without apology because Trump receives nothing but hate from progresssives, especially on this site. And progressives typically reject the biblical interventionist God and the effectiveness of intercesssory prayer for anyone, let alone Trump.

Are you projecting your attitudes on others?

Nope. I pray for Biden's wellbeing and success. Wokers rarely do the same for Trump.

 

[paradox3]

@Mystic and @jimkenney12
Please may we devote this thread to our daily reflection based on Luke 6?

There is an active Trump thread in progress. A new thread about Progressive Christianity could be started if you wish to discuss how they interpret the bible and pray.

 

[Mystic]

This cluster of sayings tacitly critiques our sense of entitlement that screams: "No one gets to treat me like that. I'm a person of worth and am entitled to be treated with dignity." A grace-based life looks at mistreatment from a perspective that experiences the abuse as a tacit cry for help and asks, "How can I respond in this abuser's best spiritual interests." For Jesus, a sense of entitlement is too ego-invested to facilitate spiritual growth and is the opposite of a life based on gratitude that relates to others out of a sense of privilege rather than duty, the privilege of being an unexpected blessing.

 

[Mendalla]

The thread starter has repeatedly asked that discussion of Trump and Biden move elsewhere. Please do so. That's not just directed at Mystic, but others who have been responding to him. Any further digressions into US politics could result in thread bans. Thank you.

 

[paradox3]

This cluster of sayings tacitly critiques our sense of entitlement that screams: "No one gets to treat me like that. I'm a person of worth and am entitled to be treated with dignity." A grace-based life looks at mistreatment from a perspective that experiences the abuse as a tacit cry for help and asks, "How can I respond in this abuser's best spiritual interests."

Disagree with most of this. I don't think expecting to be treated with dignity equals a sense of entitlement at all.

For Jesus, a sense of entitlement is too ego-invested to facilitate spiritual growth and is the opposite of a life based on gratitude that relates to others out of a sense of privilege rather than duty, the privilege of being an unexpected blessing.

Now I am lost.

 

[Mystic]

Disagree with most of this. I don't think expecting to be treated with dignity equals a sense of entitlement at all.

by definition, the opposite of a grace-based life of gratitude and privilege to serve is a life driven by the feeling that I am entitled to be treated with respect and dignity.

Now I am lost.

You don't understand a grace-based life driven by gratitude?

 

[paradox3]

by definition, the opposite of a grace-based life of gratitude and privilege to serve is a life driven by the feeling that I am entitled to be treated with respect and dignity.

Completely disagree with this premise. People who live with gratitude and serve others are entitled to respect and dignity.

You don't understand a grace-based life driven by gratitude?

That's not what I said. Your earlier post was unclear to me.

 

[Mystic]

Completely disagree with this premise. People who live with gratitude and serve others are entitled to respect and dignity.

You totally miss Jesus' point: the lives of people who live a grace-based life driven by gratitude aren't motivated by the need for respect and dignity
in honor of their entitlement. Of course, they are entitled to such respect. But they consider it a privilege to serve as a way to make their gratitude for God's grace real by the way they live. So they have no need to satisfy their sense of entitlement. Instead, their primary concern is to overlook slights so they
can serve the best spiritual interests of their abusers.

That's not what I said. Your earlier post was unclear to me.

 

[jimkenney12]

Dualism in its many forms hinders helpful conversations. Implying or claiming a life that is not grace-filled had to be the opposite does not fit a spectrum filled world.

To me, Jesus promoted deep freedom. Doing good to those who hate us frees from their power to provoke our actions. It takes a great amount of grace to be able to do this.

 

[Mystic]

Dualism in its many forms hinders helpful conversations. Implying or claiming a life that is not grace-filled had to be the opposite does not fit a spectrum filled world.

To me, Jesus promoted deep freedom. Doing good to those who hate us frees from their power to provoke our actions. It takes a great amount of grace to be able to do this.

What is it about the last post that you don't grasp or agree with?

 

[paradox3]

What is it about the last post that you don't grasp or agree with?

You are free to believe that others don't grasp what you are saying or miss the point of a biblical text.

We are discussing a complex idea that has many possible interpretations.

Let's not keep repeating ourselves. I have been moving us along in Luke 6 every morning and will continue shortly.

 

[paradox3]

Good morning once again. Today we come to another well-known and controversial saying of Jesus. Here is Luke 6:29

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 6:29 - New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition

If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from anyone who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt.

www.biblegateway.com

Taken literally, Jesus is advising us to accept another strike in the face and be willingly robbed of a second garment.

This might even be good advice for dealing with an attacker in a dark alley.

But there is a metaphorical side to this saying which might be more fruitful to explore.

Does it involve refusing to be drawn into an argument? There is a saying, sometimes attributed to W.C. Fields:
I don't have to attend every argument I am invited to.

Here are three possible meanings to turning the other cheek. There are probably more.

1. Forgiveness
2. Non violent resistance
3. Subversion

Any thoughts?

 

[Luce NDs]

Good morning once again. Today we come to another well-known and controversial saying of Jesus. Here is Luke 6:29

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 6:29 - New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition

If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from anyone who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt.

www.biblegateway.com

Taken literally, Jesus is advising us to accept another strike in the face and be willingly robbed of a second garment.

This might even be good advice for dealing with an attacker in a dark alley.

But there is a metaphorical side to this saying which might be more fruitful to explore.

Does it involve refusing to be drawn into an argument? There is a saying, sometimes attributed to W.C. Fields:
I don't have to attend every argument I am invited to.

Here are three possible meanings to turning the other cheek. There are probably more.

1. Forgiveness
2. Non violent resistance
3. Subversion

Any thoughts?

Thus one should turn their ass and run for you cannot have two threads of thought in a one line domain! This would weave a fabric where the intend was to wind something in a wrap or spun out ... what cranks!

Be satisfied with the zero sum rule ... when you have nothing left you are out of the messy disturbance we are in! Thus done gone ... into the questionable abyss ... it is curious! As a object; can it look back at us? Thus opposing views in peculiar space ... weird! No question ... where we live is odd, peculiar, gay, whatever ... 4 shores!

 

[jimkenney12]

We discussed this saying in another thread a few years ago. This saying might have been intended for life within the community. If a member strikes me on a cheek, they would be hitting me on the left cheek with their right hand as a challenge. To hit me in the other cheek they would need to use the back of their right hand or their left hands and this would be very insulting as only slaves could be hit that way. This would put the striker's status in the community at risk.

People had only two pieces of clothing. Giving up the second piece of clothing would leave them naked and there was a powerful condemnation of seeing someone naked.

 

[paradox3]

@jimkenney12
This interpretation makes the act of turning the other cheek subversive, no?

 

[Luce NDs]

We discussed this saying in another thread a few years ago. This saying might have been intended for life within the community. If a member strikes me on a cheek, they would be hitting me on the left cheek with their right hand as a challenge. To hit me in the other cheek they would need to use the back of their right hand or their left hands and this would be very insulting as only slaves could be hit that way. This would put the striker's status in the community at risk.

People had only two pieces of clothing. Giving up the second piece of clothing would leave them naked and there was a powerful condemnation of seeing someone naked.

Naked in the rye spirit or just as soul? Toxic to the desires ... want*on???? Thus some want to know ... a secret love, labelled Gnostic by some powers! Thus agnos ... as it drags on by ultimate means! Magi and not MAGA? Geez as mentioned elsewhere ... just to support discontinuity ... busted logos as a boob (knob on a stick)!

May resemble a ז in Hebrew a just zayin, the pious say in z'ne ... because they wouldn't go that far! Thus they will not say it ... YHWay? Divined??? Separate that from everything ... th' ology is like eschatology ... the dirt is right under your knows ... depth? And downright chaotic ... so stirred!

What does the average folk know about logos? Not mu*tch to chew on ... it is all Muse 'n as a line of process!

 

[Waterfall]

@jimkenney12
This interpretation makes the act of turning the other cheek subversive, no?

Wouldn't work today IMO....inviting abuse and women offering their shirts ...nope

 

[Waterfall]

Wouldn't work today IMO....inviting abuse and women offering their shirts ...nope

Although, maybe it worked for Chris Rock, lol.

 

[paradox3]

Wouldn't work today IMO....inviting abuse and women offering their shirts ...nope

The consideration of abuse complicates these discussions. I don't think turning the other cheek necessarily applies to an abusive situation unless we stretch the definition a bit.

Turning the other cheek could mean simply not fighting back. This can be wise when one is outpowered. Either in an intimate relationship or in the proverbial dark alley.

Turning the other cheek could also mean realizing the abusive party is unlikely to change & getting out of a terrible situation. No longer investing in it emotionally, perhaps.

There is lots of nuance to consider.

 

[Waterfall]

The consideration of abuse complicates these discussions. I don't think turning the other cheek necessarily applies to an abusive situation unless we stretch the definition a bit.

Turning the other cheek could mean simply not fighting back. This can be wise when one is outpowered. Either in an intimate relationship or in the proverbial dark alley.

Turning the other cheek could also mean realizing the abusive party is unlikely to change & getting out of a terrible situation. No longer investing in it emotionally, perhaps.

There is lots of nuance to consider.

If we take this context historically for Jesus' time, do you think this would be a challenge to fight back? Such as slapping someone with a glove to start a gun dual?
Or to humiliate someone?