Let's talk about the Resurrection

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PilgrimsProgress

PilgrimsProgress

Well-Known Member
As a person who is part of the so-called "progressive" theology movement, I'm often surprised how narrow are the interpretations of the resurrection - not only by conservative Christians, but also by agnostics and atheists.

Here is a quote that caught my attention -

"My response to that question on resurrection was read by some as a propositional one, but I never said that I don’t believe in the bodily resurrection. I simply pointed out that in the Gospel of Mark there is no bodily resurrection and that the tradition has a variety of ways of thinking about resurrection. I’ve gotten responses from people who think that I’m no longer Christian because of some of the things I said. My aim was to show there is space within Christianity for myriad interpretations and existential engagements with biblical texts." - Serene Jones- President of Union Theological Seminary.


Do you think this is a fair comment?

What is your personal belief regarding the resurrection?
 
No matter what ... someone will drag it up again as a reminder of the downfall of mankind from encounters with the other kind ... some people just don't like encounters of that sort!

It goes to prove how odd people are even though they believe they are perfect! The POTUS say everybody believes it ... and they couldn't be wrong about his statements ...
 
I think that, with no verifiable exceptions, dead bodies have an annoying habit of staying dead. Those that refuse to abide by this rule were probably *almost* dead. There is a difference between *almost* dead and *completely* dead, as we learned in The Princess Bride.

If, by some sort of miracle, an exception was granted 2000 years ago, I fail to see why I have to give up my Sunday mornings to celebrate it. Surely, one good shindig should have sufficed.
 
There then is the raising of the question where did mental attributes go? This is the sinking sensation that the psyche is in the place of the -1 ... especially for those believing there isn't anything beneath the physical binary system of 0's and 1's again ...

Of course this is all abstract construct that is below those opposed to Rae thinking ... how light converts within the vegetating portions!

I've been told so many times that there is no such thing as a social psyche construct ... and yet whole academies are studying it as it diminishes in the shadow of overwhelming desire to shoot down the neighbour ... some of us make satire and metaphor of it .. so the heir ups won't recognize where the laughter came from ... nowhere;s but partisan territory?

Did you know in a spectrum of understanding that partisan forces once referred to the underground movements? Can you make something of subtle issues? Kinda like autism and autistic stretches that reach out into pedestrian domains ... there's a scene in Ghost that is particularly good about subtle mysteries grabbing the perpetrators ... maybe just a useless phantom of thought ... in essence?

G'way with yah boies! Is a broken heart a concept that gnaws on the abstract? Listen to The Long Dark Veil and its lyrics and tell me what's gome MS'n! If something is extracted from a legend ... is it negative domain? More underground activity ...

I do hope there is something left for my offspring once the "presence" generation gets over their self worries ... that they've got enough to resist the neighbours! What we need is more walls and baffling immaterials ... abstracts! Some say it was all a faint dark reflection ... sort of glassy eye'd/aye 'd response ... Ide ... that's it, that blind pas 'dis tuff! "Pas deuce"?
 
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PilgrimsProgress said:
Mark 16:6 just says he was "raised" and isn't still in the burial place......

Doesn't necessarily mean a body resurrection - perhaps spirit/soul?
Could mean the burial place was robbed, and the body taken?
Click to expand...
The Word of Promise® NKJV Audio Bible

Mark 16:6

6 But he said to them, “Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He is risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid Him.

Look somewhere else for your loopholed.
 
Pontifex Geronimo 13 said:
The Word of Promise® NKJV Audio Bible

Mark 16:6

6 But he said to them, “Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He is risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid Him.

Look somewhere else for your loopholed.
Click to expand...
"Risen" does not necessarily mean he got up and stumbled out of his own tomb. Someone could have come and got the body with a forklift and just moved him to a higher resting place.
 
Thus lighter old parables drift in eddies causing turbulence for the straight up sorts! Nietzsche referred to this as inferred chaos ... may be a stimulace for more!
 
Possibly, Serene Jones, may have been referring to a spiritual resurrection, which is another interpretation among other explanations.
Mark 16:9-20 is not found in earlier manuscripts,( it was inserted much later). These additional words are questionable and seem to want to confirm a bodily resurrection, albeit in a different form, in order to expand on the previous verses including Mark 16:6.
 
In the days and weeks following the crucifixion, the apostles and disciples returned to Galilee in shock and disbelief at what had happened. However, it gradually dawned on them that, if the life and teachings of Jesus were to have any lasting impact, it could only happen by and through them. That is equally true of us today. They and we are the true resurrection. I believe that the resurrection stories in the gospels are attempts to express this idea as an allegory.
 
JRT said:
In the days and weeks following the crucifixion, the apostles and disciples returned to Galilee in shock and disbelief at what had happened. However, it gradually dawned on them that, if the life and teachings of Jesus were to have any lasting impact, it could only happen by and through them. That is equally true of us today. They and we are the true resurrection. I believe that the resurrection stories in the gospels are attempts to express this idea as an allegory.
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That's basically my take as well. I do not think there was a literal physical resurrection, but the idea is a powerful piece of myth-making about an idea so strong, it overcame death.
 
Mendalla said:
That's basically my take as well. I do not think there was a literal physical resurrection, but the idea is a powerful piece of myth-making about an idea so strong, it overcame death.
Click to expand...
But if it was only that, many have had strong ideas over the years that manifested into great movements.....so do you think the church invented something (body resurrection) in order to perpetuate a religion? Do you think Christianity would have spread as widely without it?
 
Waterfall said:
But if it was only that, many have had strong ideas over the years that manifested into great movements.....so do you think the church invented something (body resurrection) in order to perpetuate a religion?
Click to expand...

I don't think the Church "invented" it. The idea of people coming back from the dead was present in stories long before Jesus (Osiris comes immediately to mind as does Orpheus and Eurydice). It likely arose fairly early among the followers of Jesus, who could have been aware of those older stories, and spread as they spread.

Waterfall said:
Do you think Christianity would have spread as widely without it?
Click to expand...

An idea being widespread has nothing to do with its literal truth. It just has be to appealing and convincing. cf. Flat Earth and YEC.
 
If Jesus didn't rise with the same body then the Bible is a farce and a lie as it gives scripture to back up the bodily resurrection -------- The Deceiver wants people to believe that the body was just taken ------



Why is the truth of the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ so important?


https://www.gotquestions.org/bodily-resurrection-Jesus.html



The Old Testament talks about the future bodily resurrection -------the Old Testament is the foreshadowing of the coming Messiah -----


Bodily Resurrection
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/old-testament-teach-resurrection-hope/

The clearest Old Testament passage about a future bodily resurrection is Daniel 12:2: “And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” Both Jesus and Paul affirm its teaching in the New Testament (John 5:29; Acts 24:15).

Daniel isn’t the only prophet to speak this hope, however. Isaiah also prophesies physical resurrection:

Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy! For your dew is a dew of light, and the earth will give birth to the dead. (Isa. 26:19)

The dead are dust-dwelling sleepers, and resurrection will wake them up. Shifting metaphors, Isaiah depicts the earth giving birth. The tomb is a womb, and one day the dead will emerge in renewed bodily life.

Future bodily life isn’t just a truth to be spoken, but also a hope to be sung. The psalmist notes that while the wise and foolish both perish (Ps. 49:10), God “will ransom my soul from the power of Sheol, for he will receive me” (Ps. 49:15). Ransoming the soul from Sheol is receiving the whole person back from death (see Ps. 16:10; Acts 2:24–29). Moreover, for the author of Psalm 71, resurrection is a comfort. Reflecting on past calamities and future deliverance, he declares: “You who have made me see many troubles and calamities will revive me again; from the depths of the earth you will bring me up again” (Ps. 71:20). God will revive us by raising us.
 
Pontifex Geronimo 13 said:
The Word of Promise® NKJV Audio Bible

Mark 16:6

6 But he said to them, “Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He is risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid Him.

Look somewhere else for your loopholed.
Click to expand...
Er, your use of the word "loopholed" I'm guessing suggests that you are not open to a "myriad of interpretations"?
 
If the bible is a farce ... does god have a great-grand sense of humour? That is the other side of the story --- that Harvey guy! Let us turn the page!
 
JRT said:
In the days and weeks following the crucifixion, the apostles and disciples returned to Galilee in shock and disbelief at what had happened. However, it gradually dawned on them that, if the life and teachings of Jesus were to have any lasting impact, it could only happen by and through them. That is equally true of us today. They and we are the true resurrection. I believe that the resurrection stories in the gospels are attempts to express this idea as an allegory.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree. Except I don't think it was as rational as that - I believe their devotion and love for Jesus (emotional response) was an important factor. (When you love someone who has died, you often still sense their presence).

I go along with a Process Theology idea that God couldn't prevent the crucifixion, or indeed want it to happen, but did the best that God could to bring about the common good from the reality of the situation. i.e. work through the disciples, Paul, and ongoing through us today.

But, that said, it's clearly a work in process -and there is still a long way to go to bring about the common good.
 
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