God the Creator and Provider - Psalm 104

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Mendalla

Mendalla

Happy headbanging ape!!
Pronouns
He/Him/His
For this week, I thought we would play things a bit different. I have chosen a psalm, one of the longer ones. That puts us into the realm of poetry, rather than history or theology. Poetry is ultimately about feelings, the feelings expressed by the poet and the feelings inspired in us by the poem. Psalm 104 is a hymn of praise, as the title "God the Creator and Provider" suggests. I have gone with my usual NRSVUE for the link below, but flipping through the various translations and paraphrases, there are some other interesting takes on 104 so I may bring in some of them.

www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 104 - New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition

Psalm 104 God the Creator and Provider - Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, you are very great. You are clothed with honor and majesty, wrapped in light as with a garment. You stretch out the heavens like a tent; you set the beams of your chambers on the waters; you make the clouds your...
www.biblegateway.com www.biblegateway.com

Questions to ponder (don't need to answer them specifically, these are just things to think about as you react):

What image(s) of God come up here?
What is the poet trying to say here?
How do you feel on reading this psalm (inspired, etc.)?
104 is frequently used in hymns, church services, etc. Where have you encountered it and how did it function there?
 
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An initial comment about psalms in general:

Back in my UCCan days, we used to have a responsive (or unison sometimes) psalm reading. And, in retrospect, it was terrible. Slow monotone voices reciting what should be full of emotion. Psalms are poems, damn it, and should be read with feeling. Same with the hymns based on them.

A poem of any kind is, or should be, expressing the feelings of the poet. They are not sermons or statements, but expressions of inner needs, desires, delights. And I don't really see that a psalm is any different from other poems that way. So try reading this with feeling, let the emotions it sparks (if it sparks any) inform your reading instead of just coldly taking in the words.

And last note: Anyone else think of the rather humourous prayer from Monty Python's The Meaning of Life when you read the opening? While the Python prayer was a parody of Church of England piety, that style of prayer definitely was influenced by the psalms, even if it did prayer and praise rather badly compared to the psalm.

 
So what do we have happening here?

The Psalm opens with a hymn of general praise (1-4) with some rather extravagant, but powerful, divine imagery.

In 5-9, we then move to the Creation, and the separation of the Earth from the Waters a la Genesis 1:9-10, before taking that water into the idea of God as the nourisher of Creation in 10-13. We then have God as the source of life through the appearance vegation, nourishing animals and human (14-15) providing homes for wildlife (16-18) and even the cycle of day and night (19-23).

Then we have praise to God for his Creation and his support and nourishment of it and how God's presence sustains it (24-30) before a final hymn of praise (31-35).

I do find the first part of 35 a bit out of place. "Let sinner be consumed from the Earth and let the wicked be no more" seems to strike an oddly negative note in a psalm that is otherwise filled with a very positive sense of wonder, awe, and joy at God's work of creation. Any thoughts on how it fits in here? Some other versions do alter it in ways that make it feel more seamless but I wonder how accurate they are. For instance, The Voice renders 34-35 as "May the thoughts of my mind be pleasing to Him, for the Eternal has become my happiness. 35 But may those who hate Him, who act against Him, disappear from the face of this beautiful planet.", making 35 more clearly a contrast with 34. The NIV does a similar trick, though only adds the "but", not the idea of of the wicked disappearing from the "face of this beautiful planet" which kind of tied with the whole Creation element.

Overall, I love this Psalm. It is powerful Creation imagery with clear roots in Genesis 1 and reflects a Creation-based spirituality that resonates to some degree with me.

What do others think?
 
I have tended to think of 104 as yet another of the creation stories of the Hebrew Bible (there are a number of them besides the first two in Gen 1 and 2. And I like it as such, but I confess that I've never noticed that nasty little dig in verse 35. It almost feels like a childish "cross your fingers" appeasement? A bit wyrd, in the context.
 
BetteTheRed said:
I confess that I've never noticed that nasty little dig in verse 35
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Interesting. 35 was something that immediately leapt out at me. Perhaps hymn settings of the psalm skip that part of 35, though? Or maybe familiarity leads one to mentally skim over it?
 
wow
i have never read this
how very pastoral?
an ode to indeed wonder
reminded me of Middle Earth?
great expanses of landscape
(and the sheer joy like thst guy in yellowstone who went orgasmic over a double rainbow?)
neat lil leitmotifs
like Livyatan (i am finding i ike the Complete Jewish Bible)B being created to play in the sea lol

and aboot 35

yeah

made me think of a lil discussion with another Christian the other day, talking aboot sin being like corruption that if not dealt with will corrupt creation itself, so it is for the greater good to consign the corruption to Hell (away from God) as opposed to letting it corrupt and spread?

i have NEVER heard of that interpretation before...
 
"ode to indeed wonder"?

So much to query ... especially an anthology that starts out declaring that knowledge thereof is distasteful.

Then we question understanding of the folk that will not read what they find strange source of paranoia ... because they were born illiterate and directed that this was best ...

So who would read in to it? Only the abstract that somehow knew there was a missing portion posing as depth sentient! The variants to this are extensively scattered on the topic ... and this is how the spread factor is buttered ... fatty acids and NA's! Organic salts ... that may form a ribbon code ... comes in a gob and must be unraveled ... thus Gobshite! So much to dig through when we get down to the small stuff that's all closed in ... like a wardrobe ... just lion there upset!
 
Delightful Life said:
made me think of a lil discussion with another Christian the other day, talking aboot sin being like corruption that if not dealt with will corrupt creation itself, so it is for the greater good to consign the corruption to Hell (away from God) as opposed to letting it corrupt and spread?
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I think I have heard similar and it kind of makes logical sense. Certainly justifies Hell better than the idea of simply punishing bad people. Still don't buy it, though. Eternal punishment just to keep corruption contained? Why not segregate them somewhere or cleanse them through some kind of Purgatory? A good thread for R&F maybe.

Back to the psalm, this portrait of God in 1-4 is quite spectacular, I think. Definitely something more dynamic than the "old guy in the sky".
You are clothed with honor and majesty,
wrapped in light as with a garment.
You stretch out the heavens like a tent;
you set the beams of your[a] chambers on the waters;
you make the clouds your[b] chariot;
you ride on the wings of the wind;
you make the winds your[c] messengers,
fire and flame your[d] ministers.
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I am picturing something more like Apollo in Greek mythology riding in his sun chariot than a bearded old man here.

It is really a very visual psalm with lot of imagery. Nice piece of poetry that way.
 
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Mendalla said:
I do find the first part of 35 a bit out of place. "Let sinner be consumed from the Earth and let the wicked be no more" seems to strike an oddly negative note in a psalm that is otherwise filled with a very positive sense of wonder, awe, and joy at God's work of creation.
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This is commentary on this verse 35

Read more here if interested​

www.studylight.org

Psalms 104:35 - Verse-by-Verse Bible Commentary - StudyLight.org

Psalms 104:35 - May sinners be removed from the earth And may the wicked be no more. Bless the LORD, my soul. Praise the LORD! on StudyLight.org
www.studylight.org www.studylight.org

Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible​

Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth - Compare Psalms 37:38 (NAS)

38 But transgressors will be altogether destroyed; The posterity of the wicked will be cut off.

This might with propriety be rendered, “Consumed are the sinners out of the earth,” expressing a fact and not a desire; and it may have been prompted by the feeling of the psalmist that such an event would occur; that is, that the time would come when sin would no more abound, but when the world would be filled with righteousness, and all the dwellers on the earth would praise God. The word translated “consumed” - from תמם tâmam - means properly to complete, to perfect, to finish, to cease. It does not mean “consume” in the sense of being burned up - as our word means - or destroyed, but merely to come to an end, to cease, to pass away: that is; Let the time soon come - or, the time will soon come - when there will be no sinners on the earth, but when all the inhabitants of the earth will worship and honor God. The “connection” here seems to be this: The psalmist was himself so filled with the love of God, and with admiration of his works, that he desired that all might partake of the same feeling; and he looked forward, therefore, as those who love God must do, to the time when all the dwellers on earth would see his glory, and when there should be none who did not adore and love him. All that is “fairly” implied in the wish of the psalmist here would be accomplished if all sinners were converted, and if, in that sense, there were to be no more transgressors in the world.


And let the wicked be no more - Let there not be anymore wicked persons; let the time come when there shall be no bad people on the earth, but when all shall be righteous. In this prayer all persons could properly unite.
 
Imagine what would happen if a person became suddenly cognizant of all things previously denied ... would be be like a flaming incident or shocking as apocalyptic ... a bump in spatial dominions ...

Some paranormal incidents relate seeing a light at the end of this hole we're in ... d' ame! Blockage ...
 
unsafe said:
This is commentary on this verse 35

Read more here if interested​

www.studylight.org

Psalms 104:35 - Verse-by-Verse Bible Commentary - StudyLight.org

Psalms 104:35 - May sinners be removed from the earth And may the wicked be no more. Bless the LORD, my soul. Praise the LORD! on StudyLight.org
www.studylight.org www.studylight.org

Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible​

Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth - Compare Psalms 37:38 (NAS)

38 But transgressors will be altogether destroyed; The posterity of the wicked will be cut off.

This might with propriety be rendered, “Consumed are the sinners out of the earth,” expressing a fact and not a desire; and it may have been prompted by the feeling of the psalmist that such an event would occur; that is, that the time would come when sin would no more abound, but when the world would be filled with righteousness, and all the dwellers on the earth would praise God. The word translated “consumed” - from תמם tâmam - means properly to complete, to perfect, to finish, to cease. It does not mean “consume” in the sense of being burned up - as our word means - or destroyed, but merely to come to an end, to cease, to pass away: that is; Let the time soon come - or, the time will soon come - when there will be no sinners on the earth, but when all the inhabitants of the earth will worship and honor God. The “connection” here seems to be this: The psalmist was himself so filled with the love of God, and with admiration of his works, that he desired that all might partake of the same feeling; and he looked forward, therefore, as those who love God must do, to the time when all the dwellers on earth would see his glory, and when there should be none who did not adore and love him. All that is “fairly” implied in the wish of the psalmist here would be accomplished if all sinners were converted, and if, in that sense, there were to be no more transgressors in the world.


And let the wicked be no more - Let there not be anymore wicked persons; let the time come when there shall be no bad people on the earth, but when all shall be righteous. In this prayer all persons could properly unite.
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Interesting take on it. Certainly explains why it exists well.

The more I think about it, the less "off" 35 might be. After all, the Roman Epicurean poet Horace has a couple poems that paint beautiful natural images, before ending with the rather grim twist that we must enjoy this while we can because our days are numbered. Odes I,iv is one example. So using a stark shift in imagery or tone to make or underscore a point is not unknown, just kind of surprised me. But, yeah, the Barnes explanation kind of works to explain the tonal shift.
 
unsafe said:
This is commentary on this verse 35

Read more here if interested​

www.studylight.org

Psalms 104:35 - Verse-by-Verse Bible Commentary - StudyLight.org

Psalms 104:35 - May sinners be removed from the earth And may the wicked be no more. Bless the LORD, my soul. Praise the LORD! on StudyLight.org
www.studylight.org www.studylight.org

Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible​

Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth - Compare Psalms 37:38 (NAS)

38 But transgressors will be altogether destroyed; The posterity of the wicked will be cut off.

This might with propriety be rendered, “Consumed are the sinners out of the earth,” expressing a fact and not a desire; and it may have been prompted by the feeling of the psalmist that such an event would occur; that is, that the time would come when sin would no more abound, but when the world would be filled with righteousness, and all the dwellers on the earth would praise God. The word translated “consumed” - from תמם tâmam - means properly to complete, to perfect, to finish, to cease. It does not mean “consume” in the sense of being burned up - as our word means - or destroyed, but merely to come to an end, to cease, to pass away: that is; Let the time soon come - or, the time will soon come - when there will be no sinners on the earth, but when all the inhabitants of the earth will worship and honor God. The “connection” here seems to be this: The psalmist was himself so filled with the love of God, and with admiration of his works, that he desired that all might partake of the same feeling; and he looked forward, therefore, as those who love God must do, to the time when all the dwellers on earth would see his glory, and when there should be none who did not adore and love him. All that is “fairly” implied in the wish of the psalmist here would be accomplished if all sinners were converted, and if, in that sense, there were to be no more transgressors in the world.


And let the wicked be no more - Let there not be anymore wicked persons; let the time come when there shall be no bad people on the earth, but when all shall be righteous. In this prayer all persons could properly unite.
Click to expand...
Imagine all the pith in these bones of myth as Mar Roe ... and thus continuance for those that didn't wish to know much of eternal wisdom! Folly ...

Constructs continue out of what was deconstructed ... wheels turn! Thus dis cuss and all becomes silent!

Much learning as a pain goes on with our silent friend in the dark and story pool ... diabolical situations need diabolical methods ... inky? Many refuse to read anything but superficiality ...
 
Can you imagine full exposure at the shore ... if one cannot take cover with them ... there are implications in the consumption thereof ... thus it settles onus ... O' cr Ap ...
 
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