Given a God, why Jesus?

[Pavlos Maros]

I am not trying to make any case at all.
What gives you the idea I am trying to make a case for anything?

Becasue you said "At the very least, Jesus works as a role model and a moral teacher.
As a believer in the existence of "something more" I say Jesus gives us a human example of a life lived in and with God." So at the very least you were trying to make a case for christianity. Mendalla did ask why christianity.

@Pavlos Maros

I see what you are getting at. I don't think it is a matter of what makes Jesus more "special", but rather, unique - in an intriguing, and perhaps salvific way.

Christian tradition has it Jesus was literally (in history) born of a virgin,

As were (in history)Attys, Dionysos, Perseus, Krishna, Karelia, Horus, Jason, Adonis, Osiris, Mithra. So not unique at all.

]lived a moral perfect life

Apart from stealing, lying, and being disrespectful to his mother. the latter is a death sentence in the OT.

claimed to be equal to God, died on the cross for the sins of humankind

As did all these. Thulis, Khrishna, Crite, Attys, Tammuz, Hesus, Bali, Indra, Iao, Mithra, Alcestos, Quezalcoatl, Wittoba, Prometheus, Quirinus.

(for whom attaining salvation on one's own became impossible, since the bar (or law) was raised to an unattainable level according to Christ's teachings), resurrected from the dead in bodily form, and ascended into heaven.

As were Osiris, Tammuz, Adonis, Dionysos. No Jesus is still not unique.

 

[paradox3]

Becasue you said "At the very least, Jesus works as a role model and a moral teacher.
As a believer in the existence of "something more" I say Jesus gives us a human example of a life lived in and with God." So at the very least you were trying to make a case for christianity. Mendalla did ask why christianity.
.

Okay. I see where you are coming from. Going back to the OP Mendalla invited us to be convincing. Got it!

 

[airclean33]

My Belief as a Christian is , I can not save you. Only The Lord Jesus Christ can. Only He can get you to The Father GOD. I can try and help you find Jesus, and possibly help you stay on the path. But it is Christ job" to save you and bring you to The Father". I know through my own experience Jesus Christ is still alive and here today. His Angel appeared before me. He spoke with me . I have now walked with GOD for over 40 . I have seen only one other so call god try and talk with me once since then , that being Lucifer, speaking through my older Brother . Who claimed to be a none believer he tried to tell me the future" of my children. even to the end of his life, he did not remember saying what he said. The GOD we follow is The Great I AM. HE is alive and there are no other gods that are. Unless you follow the one who would be a god satan. The father of Jesus is a LOVING GOD. He also is the Father of all Living. Again though I can not make you believe that. It is your choice to make. But I will tell you , it would be the best choice you may ever make , To just ask Jesus The Lord , to just show me. John 3: 16 This includes you.

 

[Luce NDs]

Okay. I see where you are coming from. Going back to the OP Mendalla invited us to be convincing. Got it!

Is that like a small light (Sparkie) in the dark (mystery of god) or just star dust?

 

[Geo]

@Pavlos Maros

Can you think of any other person in history that was resurrected from the dead, for which there is recorded eyewitness testimony as a historical account?

 

[Jaebius]

 

[Mystic]

Mendalla, the crucial question is the proper starting point(s). But how might you determine that? Well, you have a philosophical/scientific bent and therein lies the trap for any who might want you to experience the joy of a truly empowering faith. The trap consists of questions you or any skeptic might pose that serve as bait. Suppose we take the bait and provide a fresh vision of the Christian faith whose appeal takes you by surprise as instrinsically plausible in a new way. All that would achieve is to create a more genuine openness to what really matters. But a new openness might actually erect a new barrier disguised as intellectual respectability--a cerebral orientation that actually thwarts a life-changing God encounter. What really matters is far more mystical in a way that involves "higher emotions." A more mystical mindset can best open the door to what can best be described as a divine ambush--a shattering encounter with Christ (or the Holy Spirit, if you will) that rather abruptly makes an evolving divine relationship your top priority. It was such an ambush at age 16 that thrust me on the path to seminary and doctoral work in biblical studies. Yet God did not tell me what I wanted to hear. I wanted answers to crippling issues that challenge biblical authority. Instead, what God told me is that the answers I craved were not beneficial to my spiritual development because I need to live from the heart more than from the head. God in effect told me with great clarity: "Just live the big questions until they lead you to the center of my heart." So I became a professional theology student for many years. But the mystical experiences along the journey, not fresh academic insight, made all the difference.

 

[Luce NDs]

Are thoughts often resurrected after an emotional blackout?

 

[Pavlos Maros]

@Pavlos Maros

Can you think of any other person in history that was resurrected from the dead, for which there is recorded eyewitness testimony as a historical account?

There isn't any recorded "eye" witness testimony anywhere for anybody. So no. You will have to work harder to convince anyone that jesus and christianity is the answer if all you've got is your imagination. Sorry.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Becasue you said "At the very least, Jesus works as a role model and a moral teacher.
As a believer in the existence of "something more" I say Jesus gives us a human example of a life lived in and with God." So at the very least you were trying to make a case for christianity. Mendalla did ask why christianity.
As were (in history)Attys, Dionysos, Perseus, Krishna, Karelia, Horus, Jason, Adonis, Osiris, Mithra. So not unique at all.Apart from stealing, lying, and being disrespectful to his mother. the latter is a death sentence in the OT. As did all these. Thulis, Khrishna, Crite, Attys, Tammuz, Hesus, Bali, Indra, Iao, Mithra, Alcestos, Quezalcoatl, Wittoba, Prometheus, Quirinus.As were Osiris, Tammuz, Adonis, Dionysos. No Jesus is still not unique.

So, supposing he wasn't unique in certain respects, among anthropomorphized and mythologized dieties...setting aside belief for a moment...what purpose do those qualities serve/ teach/ what do they mean, metaphorically in the context of various times, places, and peoples, then and now? Perhaps their meaning, or the meaning we interpret and what we do with it is the "something more".

Perhaps Jesus and prior dieties share traits and Jesus and humans share traits - thinking both abstractly and practically what's the point, and what's the connection? Thinking of the evolution of human history, and of story, and the story history tells us about the bigger picture - and isn't all history mythology on a certain level? What's the point, and what's the connection?

Something that comes to mind for me is that Jesus is called the Alpha and the Omega..."before Abraham was, I am." What's the point, what's the connection?

 

[Luce NDs]

So sunk in the mystery of all that we don't know about the eternal; ... would some light of Christ allow some Levite-like (levity) force to get our heads up from below the horizon ... metaphorically out of the hole ... pits of a thought to those that would chose oppression!

Thus the logic of daze, or deis ... de deus? Disisin abscondia ... or other wise as isn't close to incarnate regarding in carnal reality as it goes on out there!

 

[Pavlos Maros]

So, supposing he wasn't unique in certain respects, among anthropomorphized and mythologized dieties...setting aside belief for a moment...what purpose do those qualities serve/ teach/ what do they mean, metaphorically in the context of various times, places, and peoples, then and now?

Absolutely nothing, as they are all of the imagination! Apart from lived a moral life, However he hadn't done that according to the bible anyway, so even that is imagined!

Perhaps their meaning, or the meaning we interpret and what we do with it is the "something more".

If you want to call the imagination something more that is!

Perhaps Jesus and prior dieties share traits and Jesus and humans share traits - thinking both abstractly and practically what's the point, and what's the connection?

Ones imaginings.

Thinking of the evolution of human history, and of story, and the story history tells us about the bigger picture

No! It just tells us stories. if they were meant to be real they would be factual. -

and isn't all history mythology on a certain level?

No! But on the subjective level then maybe, but can it be anything else.

What's the point, and what's the connection?

I don't see a connection, fact and fiction are opposites. And the point is one man's imagination is different to another's. Unless they can show that theirs isn't imagination.

 

[Mendalla]

Instead, what God told me is that the answers I craved were not beneficial to my spiritual development because I need to live from the heart more than from the head. God in effect told me with great clarity: "Just live the big questions until they lead you to the center of my heart." So I became a professional theology student for many years. But the mystical experiences along the journey, not fresh academic insight, made all the difference.

I'm going to zero in on this one because it says a lot of what I think myself. However, I appreciate all the answers that responded to my OP and I think I've been pretty generous with my likes.

@Mystic is probably right on the money. Finding a religion is likely not about finding an intellectual reason to believe, but an emotional/spiritual one; "live from the heart more than from the head" as he puts it. In fact, I've actively contemplated and found resonance in many ideas expressed on here. Grace, in particular, strikes me as a key attractive feature of Christianity and "sola gratia" makes an incredible amount of rational sense once you accept the axioms underlying it (which is where it falls down for me; too many of them are not beliefs that I presently hold). But nothing has lit a spark, made me FEEL that it is something that is real to me or belongs in my life.

So, maybe, it is God saying, as @Mystic suggests, "Just live the big questions until they lead you to the center of my heart." I am a curious person and living the big questions is kind of what got me where I am. Perhaps I just need to follow them a bit further.

Thanks to all who have responded on topic. I will keep watching the thread, of course, as I know more wisdom may be coming.

 

[Luce NDs]

If one lives purely from the heart (emotional base) do the thoughts and intellect take flight? Is that a rapture in the state of far out wisdom?

 

[Mendalla]

If one lives purely from the heart (emotional base) do the thoughts and intellect take flight? Is that a rapture in the state of far out wisdom?

There needs to be a balance, of course. Really, we should be living from both. The heart energizes and inspires, the head guides.

Too much heart and we are caught up in our feelings, acting impulsively, perhaps not thinking about consequences for ourselves and others.

Too much head and we can be caught up in our thoughts, paralysis by analysis, never moving forward, never feeling excitement or love.

Thing is, for me the spiritual/religious should mostly be about feeding and nurturing the heart. I have philosophy and science to feed my head, even if they also play a part in how I live and develop spiritually.

 

[Geo]

There isn't any recorded "eye" witness testimony anywhere for anybody. So no. You will have to work harder to convince anyone that jesus and christianity is the answer if all you've got is your imagination. Sorry.

Oh? Please explain.

Also, a caveat: I don't have to work hard to convince anyone of my beliefs. I choose to believe them because I feel Christian truth makes the most sense of the world we live in, and I believe there is a rich philosophical case for it. I cannot prove any of it to be true. I can only offer reasons for my belief. If you don't want to discuss them in a reasonable, non-sarcastic sort of way, I'm not stopping you!

 

[Mendalla]

I don't have to work hard to convince anyone of my beliefs. I choose to believe them because I feel Christian truth makes the most sense of the world we live in, and I believe there is a rich philosophical case for it. I cannot prove any of it to be true. I can only offer reasons for my belief.

And you say you're not an agnostic.

Nicely said, @Geo.

 

[Luce NDs]

And you say you're not an agnostic.

Nicely said, @Geo.

And in that case is that contrary to the book of God (everything) on the topic of questioning everything?

It leaves the sense of something missing or absconded ... then perhaps if we looked closely at what we are doing socially we'd wish to leave this Maas!

Wait a moment .... do you suppose this stresses out some sensitive people to the point of mental or emotional martyrdom? Of course the physical types would say this is not possible until their soul is free of the decrepit body ... something has to happen to put the poor lamb into a Nous Kin ...

Bin deire, Dunne that ... that brick-red sensation of dust and ochre ... or is that diamonds and rust? Like when Moses retreated in the face of a God-like rant on the mountain ... the ice-man cometh forth as a woman heated?

Oh that demon in de red outfit ... feeling cheated about the handles and entitlement! Jacks dot'r ... Ephraim of de bore-a' ... hole shot in time?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Absolutely nothing, as they are all of the imagination! Apart from lived a moral life, However he hadn't done that according to the bible anyway, so even that is imagined! If you want to call the imagination something more that is!Ones imaginings. No! It just tells us stories. if they were meant to be real they would be factual. - No! But on the subjective level then maybe, but can it be anything else. I don't see a connection, fact and fiction are opposites. And the point is one man's imagination is different to another's. Unless they can show that theirs isn't imagination.

Myth has some basis in history - a telling of the way things were, subjective interpretation, storytelling using imagination, yes. What's wrong with imagination again? Why is it not a valid way to except code the brain? And I don't think if you go back far enough, that history can be completely objective and factual in any detailed way, anyway.

 

[chansen]

Oh? Please explain.

Also, a caveat: I don't have to work hard to convince anyone of my beliefs. I choose to believe them because I feel Christian truth makes the most sense of the world we live in, and I believe there is a rich philosophical case for it. I cannot prove any of it to be true. I can only offer reasons for my belief. If you don't want to discuss them in a reasonable, non-sarcastic sort of way, I'm not stopping you!

But you're not appealing to a "rich philosophical case for it." You're appealing to a large number of eyewitness testimonies. A big round number of supposed eyewitnesses thrown into a book of the claims you're saying counts as history.

That doesn't even deserve a moment's thought.