GENESIS: Snoopy's Short & Snappy Review

[paradox3]

It's P3/Snoopy's forum. Only she can post new threads, but the rest of us can reply to her threads. I thought I made that clear in the announcement in News & Business but I'll check and edit if needed.

EDITED: Yeah, I was not clear on that point. Did a quick edit on my announcement post to add that in.

I have also added a note to this effect on the Welcome thread.

 

[paradox3]

At the end of Genesis 2 the man and woman are naked and they are not ashamed. Snoopy wonders why they would even need to be ashamed.

This is a problem beagles do not have.

 

[Mystic]

The Sumerian word for "rib" also means "life." So taken poetically against this ancient Near Eastern background, the creation of woman means life from life.

4 points about the myth in 1:1-2:4a:
(1) The vacuum of space is interpreted as "the waters" above. So when "the wind" moves over the face of the waters and God says, "Let there be light," we have the image of an energy force expanding in space resulting in light. Sorta a primitive picture of the Big Bang!

(2) Somewhat parallel with evolutionary theory, life advances from the simplest forms to the more complex; it begins as vegetation, then animal life begins in the sea, and only later spreads to the land.

(3) Notice that God doesn't speak vegetation, sea life, and land life into existence; rather, He says, "Let the Earth bring forth" this life.
The Near Eastern background of this image is the Earth Mother, which might be viewed as a personified image of Mother Nature.
If so, God sets the creation process in motion and then let's Mother Nature produce life. In this sense, this creation myth reminds me of Mother Nature personified as Lady Wisdom, whose participation is the creation process is detached from Yahweh's role and protrayed as divine play:

30."I (Lady Wisdom) was beside the master craftsman, delighting him day after day, ever at play in his presence,
31.at play everywhere on his earth (Proverbs 8:30-31--New Jerusalem Translation)."

The image of divine "play" meshes with the concept of seemingly random selection and evolutionary dead ends, as so much of the evolutionary process lacks an obvious progressive purpose.

(4) God rests from creation on the 7th day (the Sabbath) and continues to rest from creation. Thus, there is no distinction between the 7th day of creation and the 8th day because we are still in the 7th day. This allows the interpretation that God creates in stages in which each "day" is not a literal 24 hour day.
The sun is created on the 4th day; so the concept of 24 hour days would in any case be meaningless for the first 3 "days" of creation.

 

[Mendalla]

At the end of Genesis 2 the man and woman are naked and they are not ashamed. Snoopy wonders why they would even need to be ashamed.

The invention of clothing has a lot to answer for, eh.

I suspect this is literary and provides some parallelism. I'll say more when you get to 3, though.

 

[paradox3]

The invention of clothing has a lot to answer for, eh.

I suspect this is literary and provides some parallelism. I'll say more when you get to 3, though.

Could it be a touch of foreshadowing? We know that God is going to have a lot to say later about sexual morality.

 

[paradox3]

Good morning! By complete coincidence, we arrive at the exile from Eden on Good Friday. Here is Genesis 3:

Snoopy's Snappy review: A puzzler to ponder.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 3 - New English Translation

The Temptation and the Fall - Now the serpent was shrewder than any of the wild animals that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Is it really true that God said, ‘You must not eat from any tree of the orchard’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit from the trees of...

www.biblegateway.com

Snoopy has more questions about this chapter than he can shake a stick at!

Is this story a myth to explain why humans mess up so badly and need the Law for guidance? The Torah sets down many rules, some of them in great detail. In fact, there are 613 laws provided for the Israelites.

Could it be a myth to explain why life in the ancient world was so harsh? Indeed, women still suffer in childbirth and many people still toil daily for their food.

Or is it just a story about assuming adult responsibilities? Snoopy is reminded of the puppies at the Daisy Hill Puppy Farm. As newborns they are completely dependent on their mothers. But before you know it, those mamas push them to wean, eat solid food and stand on their own four feet.

Was it God's plan all along that Adam and Eve would be exiled from the Garden of Eden?

Snoopy has a hard time understanding why eating the forbidden fruit would have caused the people to be ashamed of their nakedness. Dogs, as he mentioned yesterday, don't have this issue at all.

Why would God have desired to deny Adam and Eve the knowledge of good and evil? To Snoopy this awareness sounds like a positive thing.

 

[Mendalla]

All of the above? I think you can read the myth in many ways and those options you give are not mutually exclusive. Interestingly, the Original Sin reading beloved of traditional and evangelical Christianity is one of the least likely IMHO. It is very much the product of later theological thinking.

Was it God's plan all along that Adam and Eve would be exiled from the Garden of Eden?

I don't seen anything here to indicate that. He seems rather astonished and put off when he realizes what they did so I am not sure I see intent here. But that raises the question of how God actually saw humanity existing. Did he want sweet, thoughtless robots dancing and singing his praises in Paradise for all eternity? If not, if he expected independent thought and action, then what happened would have been entirely predictable, wouldn't it?

Why would God have desired to deny Adam and Eve the knowledge of good and evil?

See my "sweet, thoughtless robots" line above. If that's what God wanted, then of course he wouldn't want them to have complex knowledge like this. But if he wanted more, if wanted thinking, independent beings, then that knowledge had to come sooner or later.

 

[paradox3]

I am trying to remember if I was ever taught the doctrines of the Fall and Original Sin. Probably not in so many words. I might have learned that the serpent represented the Evil One.

We did learn about our sinful natures which require redemption. In my Sunday School days, only Christians were going to receive salvation. I don't think I was ever taught that we inherited our sinful natures from Adam.

 

[Mendalla]

See I think the whole serpent thing could be viewed in terms of how our curiousity can lead us astray but also to knowledge and freedom. There is no literal "Devil" there, just a symbol of something internal that leads us to that knowledge. Once we have that knowledge, then we can't live in innocence anymore (the shame at nakedness) but require social structures (the Law) to help us stay to the "Good" side of the knowledge. But I look at it from outside the straitjacket of Christian theology to some degree, even if I am coming at it with a modern or even post-modern perspective.

 

[paradox3]

The serpent also serves as someone for Eve to blame. The man blames the woman and the woman blames the serpent.

If the serpent represents the Evil One, it is no match for God. It gets cursed, too.

 

[unsafe]

My view

The woman was deceived by the serpent ---Adam was not deceived by the woman --Adam who was a type of Christ who took the fruit willingly ---He decided to disobey God's command willingly ------

Adam all by himself causes the fall of mankind =====He was the Captain aboard the ship ----He committed high treason against God -----He was in charge of the Graden not Eve she was his Supporter ---His helper to look after the garden -----

All we punished by God -----for their Disobedience----Adam could have saved the day if he had refused the fruit from Eve ---gbut he made a bad decision by his free will toi choose ---

 

[paradox3]

My view

The woman was deceived by the serpent ---Adam was not deceived by the woman --

Agree. Interpretations of the story often cast Eve as a temptress but I don't see it either.

Adam who was a type of Christ who took the fruit willingly ---He decided to disobey God's command willingly ------

Agree that Adam took the fruit willingly.

How is he a type of Christ though? I have heard of Christ as the second Adam. I have never heard of Adam as any type of Christ.

 

[unsafe]

How is he a type of Christ though? I have heard of Christ as the second Adam. I have never heard of Adam as any type of Christ.

Romans 5:14

Amplified Bible
Yet death ruled [over mankind] from Adam to Moses [the Lawgiver], even over those who had not sinned as Adam did. Adam is a type of Him (Christ) who was to come [but in reverse—Adam brought destruction, Christ brought salvation].

 

[paradox3]

Romans 5:14

Amplified Bible
Yet death ruled [over mankind] from Adam to Moses [the Lawgiver], even over those who had not sinned as Adam did. Adam is a type of Him (Christ) who was to come [but in reverse—Adam brought destruction, Christ brought salvation].

Got it. It's helpful to read on in Romans 5. It's sort of a pattern or mirror image idea.

 

[Mystic]

Was it God's plan all along that Adam and Eve would be exiled from the Garden of Eden?

Why would God have desired to deny Adam and Eve the knowledge of good and evil? To Snoopy this awareness sounds like a positive thing.

I see it not primarily as the story of the Fall, but as the birth of conscience. That will be the subject of this post. Secondarily, it is also the story of the essential psychodynamics of evil. That will be the subject of my next planned post.

God created Adam and Eve with a nature that guaranteed their disobedience:

"Then the Lord God said: See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good from evil (3:22)."

(1) Humanity was created "in God's image;" so the result of the "Fall" actualized that image.

.(2) Adam and Eve didn't know the difference between good and evil until they ate the forbidden fruit and God wanted moral creatures who knew this distinction. So humanity was created with a vulnerable nature that made disobedience inevitable so they could learn by trial and error with their conscience as their guide. In that sense, they were "imprisoned in disobedience:

"God has imprisoned us all in disobedience in order that He might have mercy on us all."
So reconciliation with God depends not on merit and a sense of entitlement, but on mercy and grace:

Whether in this life or the next, God's ultimate goal is universal restoration:

"For everything is from Him (God), and through Him and (back) to Him (11:36)."

 

[jimkenney12]

Two different creation stories. The second story is a coming of age story.

 

[Mendalla]

Two different creation stories. The second story is a coming of age story.

That's a nice succinct summary of it, Jim.

 

[unsafe]

At the end of Genesis 2 the an and woman are naked and they are not ashamed.

Shame comes with guilt -===guilty conscience ----from sin or disobedience ----

Adam and Eve did not have a guilty conscience --their souls were pure and perfect they were socializing with God in the Garden so their nakedness was like a color of innocence ----

 

[unsafe]

God created Adam and Eve with a nature that guaranteed their disobedience:

Well you might say that -----but I think it was more a jester of giving His Creation free will to choose to obey or disobey -Him----

What God needed was a Tempter to allow the free choice of His Human Creation to obey or not ----God created the Angels who also were given free will to Choose as well ----

Lucifer made a choice to rebel against God -----God then had His Tempter with Lucifer's rebellion ===So I don't think God Created Adam and Eve with a Nature that guaranteed their Disobedience ----He gave then free will of Choice to obey or disobey Him ---and allowed Lucifer who became Satan to have his way in the Garden with Eve maybe to test her on who she would Obey ----Satan or God -----and we know the rest of the story ---

I do think this was all in God's plan before He created this Earth as His whole plan in the beginning was to bring His Son in the flesh to save His Human Creation who He already knew would use their free will of choice for sin and disobedience ------

So he had His back up plan in place since the beginning

 

[unsafe]

Snoopy has a hard time understanding why eating the forbidden fruit would have caused the people to be ashamed of their nakedness.

their souls were then aware of their nakedness ----and Shame came to their door ---their conscience was seared ---the innocents was gone ----the knowledge of evil infiltrated their souls and seeing their nakedness brought guilt upon them -----they wanted to cover up their nakedness from themselves ----the holy veil had been stripped away -----