Extinction Rebellion
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Ritafee
Is Being Human
f***, I can’t even leave. Rita’s posting some ill advised cockamamie crap. And I clicked on it. 
Be careful of “reasonable” antienvironmental and/or environmental views like this! People like this are tossing out red herrings. Environmentalism is important. Just be careful it’s not coming from the far right or out in libertarian right field...whether it appears to support environmentalism or not, be careful where it comes from and how it blurs the picture. The far right will try to get people from either angle - even use people like this. No, it’s not paranoid, either. That’s their MO...anywhere they can wriggle in, they will. Plug the holes in the boat!
Eisenstein appears apolitical, but for some reason is taking this opportunity to critique a movement (non explicitly but it’s there) that’s the planet’s best chance right now. He’s alluding to the idea of XR itself being eco fundamentalism (timing is everything)...he wants you to consider that we shouldn’t take the climate science at its word, and there’s a different way to be environmentalist.
Sorry Charles we don’t have time for that.
Combine environmentalism with kooky mystic spirituality narratives like his and that’s rife for eco fascism to take advantage of. Deliberate or not. And, non deliberately...Ritafee...I love her but...doesn’t pay attention to these things. She’s on the libertarian algorithm.
Be careful of “reasonable” antienvironmental and/or environmental views like this! People like this are tossing out red herrings. Environmentalism is important. Just be careful it’s not coming from the far right or out in libertarian right field...whether it appears to support environmentalism or not, be careful where it comes from and how it blurs the picture. The far right will try to get people from either angle - even use people like this. No, it’s not paranoid, either. That’s their MO...anywhere they can wriggle in, they will. Plug the holes in the boat!Eisenstein appears apolitical, but for some reason is taking this opportunity to critique a movement (non explicitly but it’s there) that’s the planet’s best chance right now. He’s alluding to the idea of XR itself being eco fundamentalism (timing is everything)...he wants you to consider that we shouldn’t take the climate science at its word, and there’s a different way to be environmentalist.
Sorry Charles we don’t have time for that.
Combine environmentalism with kooky mystic spirituality narratives like his and that’s rife for eco fascism to take advantage of. Deliberate or not. And, non deliberately...Ritafee...I love her but...doesn’t pay attention to these things. She’s on the libertarian algorithm.
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Sorry...he has some other good points but I don’t trust his radicalism. It’s too far out even for me. I could be wrong about him. Got to get out of here.
(Yes, it takes me more than an instant to “break up” with person(s)/ place, in my mind...it’s a difficult process of stages. Not everyone can “cut and run”. But I am in the process of detaching from here.)
(Yes, it takes me more than an instant to “break up” with person(s)/ place, in my mind...it’s a difficult process of stages. Not everyone can “cut and run”. But I am in the process of detaching from here.)
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This is what I am suspicious of. I don’t know that it applies to Charles Eisenstein. It might not. I’m just cautious.
www.nybooks.com
The Menace of Eco-Fascism | Matthew Phelan
Much of what the German émigré critical theorist Theodor Adorno had to say about fascism and democracy in 1959 applies equally well to fascism and environmentalism today: the survival of these tendencies within environmentalism could be potentially more menacing than the survival of fascist...
www.nybooks.com
Book Review: Charles Eisenstein’s “Sacred Economics” : words and dirt
www.words-and-dirt.com
I'm sorry that I insulted you Rita I should have criticized the subject matter, if anything, not the poster. . I think you have a good heart.
Ritafee
Is Being Human
Kimmio you do not have to apologize to me. You can not insult me with words especially when I am fully aware that this is never your intent. I used to get 'insulted' in this forum but I have realized that it is never my intent to offend anyone here so I draw what I perceive to be a logical conclusion that no one here is deliberately trying to offend me. I am not an authority on the 'extinction rebellion' and neither does Charles claim to be - he is however an integral contributor to it's inception. He is not a reductionist and I appreciate that - if you don't look at the whole map so to speak ... you will miss the big picture. Whatever ... I am not going to try to sell his 'point of view' to you or anyone else. This fellow has written many books ... and he offers them all for free or asks that you donate what you can afford. He offers all of his online courses for free as well or asks for what you feel you can afford. This to me is a mark of integrity ... I highly recommend his work and his outlook towards 'a better world that we all know is possible.' He is not political or religious. He just is intent on a gift economy and 'interbeing'. I am not sure how one can find offence with that. You and I have much more in common with each other than we have differences. You are looking for the same thing I am. We just have different ideas on how to get there at this point. I have no need of authority - I actually really don't acknowledge that anyone has authority over me. I am what I am and that's all that I can ever be. Anyway ... enough about me. As far as the Extinction rebellion goes ... I find that Charles makes a lot of sense and find him very compassionate in all his endeavors to reconcile the planet with the people. Comparing him to 'labels' that you are finding threatening has no impact on me one way or the other. He is what he is and I think he is a very good man who devotes most of his time and energy into trying to figure out the right thing to do for all of our relations and not just himself. I admire him for that but he is not my guru. I have no guru's - just like everyone else I am trying to figure it out one step at a time. I have no ulterior motive other than 'trying' my best to work together creatively and not under any one person's or group's authority. I do not need to read a book review of Charles writings ... I read all his books and they make good sense to me. I thought maybe some others would appreciate his writing on this topic that is of concern to most of us here. It is not a political issue ... we all have to make up our own minds about how we want to move forward ... for me it will be holistic not reductionist and I am not looking to governments that have created the problems in the first place to be the authority on the remedy.
I find that very difficult myself ... so I just don't bother about it anymore. I think there have been two times for myself that I wrote my good-byes to WC2 and then went but hey ... this is not a competition to see if we can do it when we say we think we want to do it. Other people have done it ... maybe they did it for reasons that were right for them. Maybe it is not the thing that you really need to do. Carry on ... just relax ... just some chaos of the mind ... we all have it. That's what thinking does. One thought pops in and another one pops in and starts trying to control the other one ... and on it goes. I am just not that strict with my thoughts ... I can't seem to get them 'written' before another one comes along and says 'that was stinkin thinkin' you better fix that. Again ... stay or go ... as you wish ... speaking for myself ... I do not think that there is any need to prove to anyone that you can stay away. When I take my sabbaticals no one seems to even notice ... people are funny that way.
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Mrs.Anteater
Just keep going....
I don’t find the choice of words “ fundamentalism” very helpful. Of course he has a point that one cannot reduce the problem to the amount of carbon as a number, as the whole system will be toppling once it reaches the breaking point. It is also fairly reasonable to think, that life in general will survive- some life forms, that is, but not so likely humans. It is good to be reminded of the complexity here, but bringing terms like “ fundamentalism” into it seem to turn the subject into a discussion- and frankly, there is no time for discussion, its time to act, holistically or otherwise.
Mrs.Anteater
Just keep going....
Ok, kimmio, whatever you decide about staying or leaving, but if you are staying, please keep your fears of fascism on your fascism thread (s) unless you have actual prove the source someone is quoting is fascist.This is what I am suspicious of. I don’t know that it applies to Charles Eisenstein. It might not. I’m just cautious.
The Menace of Eco-Fascism | Matthew Phelan
Much of what the German émigré critical theorist Theodor Adorno had to say about fascism and democracy in 1959 applies equally well to fascism and environmentalism today: the survival of these tendencies within environmentalism could be potentially more menacing than the survival of fascist...
It’s not to dismiss your interest and insolvent in XR or XR itself. I only meant to post what to keep an eye open for with green movements getting infiltrated or coopted...or ethnonationalist focused, that escapes peoples notice...it’s a legit concern right now, that has a basis in history, also. I’m more interested in reading this thread about XR than posting about it.
*insolvent (?) that was autocomplete. I meant “involvement”.
that was autocomplete. I meant “involvement”.*insolvent (?)
Sounds like drumpian ego nomia ... with a bit of transliteration thrown in to support the intended chaos ... from the other path of etic ... escaping the deep pool of the unknown ... thus poled MS Understood! The great shaft of leadership ... to get the anima moving ...
Rifts in the cosmological veil may be seen as flashes ... that thing in the marketplace as a streak ... some facia may wrinkle!
It kind of does, doesn’t it? i apologize. It was not intentional.
Always investigate the unintentional ... there may be Moor tuit than intended in the image of something missing ... sometimes labelled as incarnate ... until fulfilled! Then Sophia evolves ... bit by bit in a rye tattoo as dancing about the flames ... some involvement may be expected as all get burned in creation (whether physical, mental or emotional ... expect cloud and fuzziness)! Some label this euphoria and say it isn't real ... but once stilled we get through it as condensed down ...
Drippy spirits on an Eire morn ...
Mrs.Anteater
Just keep going....
What if We Stopped Pretending the Climate Apocalypse Can Be Stopped?
The climate apocalypse is coming. To prepare for it, we need to admit that we can’t prevent it.
Ritafee
Is Being Human
In his book “Let Man Prevail: A Socialist Manifesto and Program” Fromm writes:
Man, instead of being the master of the machines he has built has become their servant. But man is not made to be a thing, and with all the satisfaction of consumption, the life forces in man cannot be held in abeyance continuously. We have only one choice, and that is mastering the machine again, making production into a means and not an end, using it for the unfolding of man-or else the suppressed life energies will manifest themselves in chaotic and destructive forms.
Man will want to destroy life rather than die of boredom.
Can we make our mode of social and economic organization responsible for this state of man? As was indicated above, our industrial system, its way of production and consumption, the relations between human beings which it fosters, creates precisely the human situation which has been described. Not because it wants to create it, not due to evil intentions of individuals, but because of the fact that the average man’s character is formed by the practice of life which is provided by the structure of society.
Man, instead of being the master of the machines he has built has become their servant. But man is not made to be a thing, and with all the satisfaction of consumption, the life forces in man cannot be held in abeyance continuously. We have only one choice, and that is mastering the machine again, making production into a means and not an end, using it for the unfolding of man-or else the suppressed life energies will manifest themselves in chaotic and destructive forms.
Man will want to destroy life rather than die of boredom.
Can we make our mode of social and economic organization responsible for this state of man? As was indicated above, our industrial system, its way of production and consumption, the relations between human beings which it fosters, creates precisely the human situation which has been described. Not because it wants to create it, not due to evil intentions of individuals, but because of the fact that the average man’s character is formed by the practice of life which is provided by the structure of society.
Ritafee
Is Being Human
From the review that you provided:
- Eisenstein is one of many early 21st-century thinkers trying to respond to the negative effects of climate change and globalization, and at many points throughout the book he is spot on with his critiques and possible solutions.
- He rightly argues that we need a new kind of materialism, one more reflective of our embeddedness in and dependence on Earth’s ecosystems.
- Attempting to show how the modern world has failed to meet certain human needs even as it has blown others way out of proportion, Eisenstein laments the widespread monetization of human goods and relationships, convincingly linking this phenomenon to the myth of infinite economic growth.
- He envisions a new future of revitalized gift culture, one that emphasizes degrowth, corporate internalization of environmental costs, peer-to-peer distribution networks, legal protection for “the commons,” and a resurgence of communities that can provide a plurality of meaningful ways for people to spend their precious time on Earth.
- an economic concept the reviewer admits they are not capable of critiquing properly.
- Eisenstein claims that usury (interest) is a foundational problem in our financial system because it ensures that those with the most money will always have the most earning potential and that those who need loans will be condemned to forever pay back more than they borrow.
- In an interest-based economy, people are rewarded for hoarding; with the advent of decaying currency, the emphasis will be on giving. A currency that loses value when not in circulation, Eisenstein argues, would stimulate flow of capital and put more money, goods and services into the hands of the most needy. He also champions the rise of variegated local and regional currencies that might eventually replace international ones. These currencies could be backed by natural resources rather than trust in governmental bodies, thus encouraging societies to enrich their ecosystems, which would lead to greater wealth for all.