Rita kind of is because the libertarian camp she comes from has different priorities so she brought it up and swayed the conversation and I don’t agree with her camp’s tactics or overall views. They don’t represent me. They don’t represent disabled people fighting MAiD.
Expansion of MAID delayed until after next election
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Middle class people who know how to self advocate get treated better in the system. That’s always been true. And those who don’t are at more risk from ableism and discrimination in the system. That’s always been true also. MAiD makes the risks exponentially deadlier. I’m fighting for them. I’m on their side. The people whose voices have been beaten down. That’s why human rights need to be recognized and protected and they haven’t with MAiD.
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The disabled people fighting MAiD are not against socialized medicine.
The people on the street are not going to be helped by a privatized system (there will just be more people at risk on the street) and that’s not what we’re discussing. See this is how you convolute things so that while this is true (and callous as hell):
MAID balances the budget by eliminating the need for ongoing care.
It is not an argument against socialized medicine so instead of feeling like you’re supporting the same cause - because I agree it’s not the government’s place to fund killing people (that’s not “medicine”) - I instead feel like “how dare you try to sneak socialized medicine into this!” Again, you’re spitting in peoples’ faces and I don’t even think you know it. Or maybe you do, because you use this tactic a lot. It’s misinformation. Don’t use MAiD opposition as an excuse for supporting privatization. F that. You’re corrupting the argument. Again.
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Northwind
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Because of what? People who are terminally ill have to jump through hoops to get MAID. Do you think they need to do more? Are you saying track 1 has to be gone because of track 2? If so, I disagree.
Northwind
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Of course disabled people who can, do need to advocate where they can.
People with metastatic cancer, which will kill them, have a say as well. I don't know what it's like to live with a disability that is lifelong. You don't know what it's like to live with metastatic cancer so I ask you to have some respect and to recognize those of us who do get to have an opinion. As I've said more than once, I'm glad it's an option even though I don't plan to use it.
At minimum, it has to be revised with stronger safeguards so that there’s no confusion. Reasonably foreseeable death is not a medical term. Timelines for prognosis need to be much shorter and clearer - like days not years - so that people get treatment that could save their life if they are suicidal because of diagnosis and giving up before they’ve tried, and before doctors have tried, or because there’s no adequate accessible place for them to recover - as accessibility is a factor with many terminal illness patients too - as a result of being ill they are disabled. Obviously people with stable homes and adequate supports stand a better chance than those who don’t. Many beat the odds - that should be priority in how healthcare is offered. That’s what advances in medicine and the reason we have it, are about. We shouldn’t be enabling early death through the medical system or we truly will end up with one that favours certain people’s lives over others. We already have that. MAiD further endorses it. Also, disabled people also get cancer (and every other illness). They are human beings. They are not lost causes, and shouldn’t be viewed that way, but are at greater risk of being treated that way with the MAiD cards stacked against them and social attitudes devolving. This is not the time, in this world as it is, to be overlooking that. Maybe in a safe peaceful world track 1 wouldn’t be abused. We aren’t in that world (maybe some still think we are) and MAiD abuse/ expansion is a huge danger to the people in it.
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Look at history. Look where we’re at now. It’s virtually the same. (Virtue disappearing)
Northwind
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That happens now. You clearly don't know what it's like to live with end stage metastatic cancer and cancer treatment in general. I would not qualify for MAID at this point, nor should I. My friend who went through the process was at the end of her life. She chose to end treatment because that was her right. It was also quite understandable that she chose that at that point. Her doctor was fully willing to continue to treat her. My friend was done and the treatment was no longer really beneficial.
Learn what cancer treatment is about and what is involved before you make any more grand pronouncements.
I have heard of cases of people with mestatic cancer, not close to death, being offered MAiD. They had the wherewithal to be upset about it and demand better. How many don’t?
With the removal of the reflection period it can happen fast and with the provinces not requiring to put MAiD as cause of death, who would know - especially those with little social support?
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Huge danger to not have to put MAiD down as cause of death. At minimum the illness and MAiD need to be clearly stated. There are so many problems with both MAiD tracks but Track 2 shouldn’t have even entered into it and is the first priority to be fighting. But that doesn’t negate the other problems.
Northwind
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Please read what I wrote again. Yes, I've known people who felt pressured to apply for MAID. They did not accept that and chose not to apply. No one is forcing anyone with cancer to actually apply for MAID. Even if they tried to force someone, they cannot actually succeed with that pressure because of the hoops involved. As for prognosis, that is a bit of a guessing game. Some people live on in spite of all odds. Some take a turn for the worst and die unexpectedly.
I remind you that I was diagnosed with breast cancer in February 2019. I was probably metastatic from the beginning. A small group that I was involved with started with about ten of us just before covid. Only two of us are still alive. I've lost several friends and have chatted with real people about MAID. This is real life for me. It's not some theoretical discussion.
Frankly I'm quite annoyed that you are acting like you know everything about MAID and cling to wrong information.
I appreciate your passion about how it applies to people with disabilities.
Read what those who know better than me are saying about what the problems are, then. Don’t rely on me for all the information from the anti-MAiD side. There’s a lot out there. That’s not a responsibility I want or should have. I just know if I hadn’t said anything, people would here would know much less about it.
I’m glad you’re still here and still fighting and have not been offered MAiD.
Northwind
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I'm not reading things. I'm living through them. Frankly I would not trust the anti-MAID, ot any anti group for reliable information.
I'm not wasting my energy fighting. The battle metaphor is horrific on so many levels. That's a topic for another place.
I’m sorry for using the word fighting then. I’m just glad you’re doing reasonably well. Is that ok to say? I care that you’re here.
WhyCzar
Connect The Dots
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I have no agenda here. I will leave you to it.
You would not trust the UN for reliable information and the doctors who were actually on the MAiD committee, raising concern?
If any medical professional offered me a MAiD application, there’s a serious risk I’d be charged with assault for punching them in the nose - and I’m not a violent person! That’s just how angry I’d be. Being offered - even an application - shouldn’t happen. That should be illegal, but instead it’s being encouraged. I’d have to exercise great restraint. It would ruin my life but not theirs, if they got bopped in the nose. They have the upper hand. I consider it a grave threat though, to have healthcare professionals essentially offering to kill people. How ironic.
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Do you trust the MacDonald Laurier institute? This is recent. It covers all the MAiD bases.
Bridging the Gaps - Legislative and practice problems in Canada’s MAiD regime: Ramona Coelho and David Shannon | Macdonald-Laurier Institute
An emphasis on “choice” and “access” ignores the reality that desperation driven by systemic neglect can lead some to pursue assisted suicide under coercive conditions.
macdonaldlaurier.ca
In other jurisdictions like the Netherlands that legalized MAiD before we did - a patient cannot be given MAiD for any illness if they refuse treatment options. Doctors will not kill a patient because maybe they see refusal of treatment as suicide and not their job? At least, not their priority as health professionals. And if one out of three doctors disagrees with the decision to proceed, it doesn’t happen. In other words, they defer to trying to save a life first, by law and not just in theory.
chansen
Had a point all along
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The right-wing think tank that wants the CBC defunded and trans youth unable to receive gender-affirming care? Those guys are your source?
MAiD can not be discussed at WC2. It is never an actual discussion. It sucks, but that's just how it is.
Edit: What's fascinating is Rita is against MAiD because she doesn't want the government funding anything because of course she doesn't, which isn't Kimmio's concern, but they are accidental allies on this topic.