David is a very naughty boy (2 Samuel 11-12)

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
So in Chapter 12 --------we see Nathan the Prophet has come to bring David a Message from God -----Nathan then tells David a Parable and David says that the man who killed the one lamb that belonged to the traveller to feed him should surely die --he must pay for that lamb 4 times over ----

Nathan said David you are that man ------David had to condemn his own sin before he could be forgiven by God ---

verses ----5 David burned with anger against the man and said to Nathan, “As surely as the Lord lives, the man who did this must die! 6 He must pay for that lamb four times over, because he did such a thing and had no pity.”

Nathan says to David ----------This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. 8 I gave your master’s house to you, and your master’s wives into your arms. I gave you all Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more. 9 Why did you despise the word of the Lord by doing what is evil in his eyes?

So we see God here God's unconditional love toward David even thought David abandoned God and committed terrible acts ---God did not abandon David -He sent Nathan to try and talk some sense into him ----

So we are the ones who drive God away from us ----God is always there for us ----sin drives the wedge between God and His Children -----David chose Sin over God -----

And now the hard part ---Sin will always have consequences ----and David had chose his path when he took Bathsheba and she became with Child -------he committed premeditated murder and this could not go unpunished

And make no mistake Folks ---God could have killed David for what he did ---but He doesn't kill him ----and it is only because of God's Grace that he spars David from death ------instead God says this ----

AMP
11 Thus says the Lord, ‘Behold, I will stir up evil against you from your [c]own household; and I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your companion, and he will lie with your wives in [d]broad daylight.

12 Indeed you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, and [e]in broad daylight.’”

13 David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has allowed your sin to pass [without further punishment]; you shall not die.

14 Nevertheless, because by this deed you have given [a great] opportunity to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme [Him], the son that is born to you shall certainly die.”

15 Then Nathan went [back] to his home.

I say -------So we see that because of what David did -----he gave God"s enemies the opportunity to Blaspheme God -----and that Folks is a serious offence against God -----

And God in verse 11 is telling David what is coming to his household for what he did so David should have been well prepared to deal with What he brought upon Himself ------David by his sinful devious actions brought on the death of his son -----all by himself -----and David would have been aware of his iniquity being passed on to his son -------

God make it very clear in ---Numbers 14 ---what happens to people who continue to Sin against Him ------

Here Moses is pleading to God for Mercy for the Sinful Israelite"s

11 The Lord said to Moses, “How long will these people treat me disrespectfully and reject Me? And how long will they not believe in Me, despite all the [miraculous] signs which I have performed among them?

12 I will strike them with the pestilence (plague) and dispossess them, and will make you into a nation greater and mightier than they.”

17 And now, I pray You, let the power of my Lord be great, as You have promised, saying,

18 The Lord is long-suffering and slow to anger, and abundant in mercy and loving-kindness, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, upon the third and fourth generation.

This is also said in Exodus 20 verses 4- 5 ----

4 You shall not make yourself any graven image [to worship it] or any likeness of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;

5 You shall not bow down yourself to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate Me,


So David suffered what he brought on himself ------Folks ----God did not make David do what he did ----David used his free will to do as HE wished and now has to pay the price for his own actions ------

Blaming God is playing the blame game and not us humans taking responsibility for our own actions -----and here is the great thing which David realises -----

David says -----

22 David said, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept; for I thought, ‘Who knows, the Lord may be gracious to me and the child may live.’ 23 But now he is dead; why should I [continue to] fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him [when I die], but he will not return to me.”

I say ---David is saying here that he will go to him in heaven ----so David knew that his child is with God in heaven -----

Then God restores David with a son and God loved the son ----

Solomon Born​

24 David comforted his wife Bathsheba, and went to her and lay with her; and she gave birth to a son, and David named him Solomon. And the Lord loved the child;
 
Both envy and lust are conditions of the heart and are very destructive to one's Spiritual walk if left unchecked ----as we see with David's trouble with lust in these 2 Chapters ---

What we learn from these Chapters is ----

First ---secret sin will be found out ----you can's fool or hide sin from God and eventually it will be exposed ----
Luke 8:17--AMP
For there is nothing hidden that will not become evident, nor anything secret that will not be known and come out into the open.

Second -----God in His Love --Grace and Mercy will forgive anyone who truly repents --David was an Adulter and a murderer and was forgiven of his sins -----

Third -----Even though God forgave David of his sins ----the consequences of his sins remained -and that is the way it is for God's Children today ---even thought we receive Jesus in our hearts and all sin past --present and future are forgiven ---if the believer sins they will bear the consequences of that sin ------

Fourth --- it shows that God can work in every difficult situation and have His will be the outcome -----we have no control over God's plan ---we can't stop it and we can't manipulate it -
God wanted His Son Jesus The Messiah to come from the line of Judah and David was a part of that plan -----
 
unsafe said:
Second -----God in His Love --Grace and Mercy will forgive anyone who truly repents --David was an Adulter and a murderer and was forgiven of his sins -----

Third -----Even though God forgave David of his sins ----the consequences of his sins remained -and that is the way it is for God's Children today ---even thought we receive Jesus in our hearts and all sin past --present and future are forgiven ---if the believer sins they will bear the consequences of that sin ------
/QUOTE]
Everyone sins, does repentance or Grace not count?
Click to expand...
 
I think a lot of David's praise and reputation came to him post-mortem. Yes, he made his mistakes, some of them biggies, like the one under discussion in this thread. But a lot of the histories in the Hebrew Scriptures were written many, many years after the fact, and nostalgia had a chance to colour memories. David, about 7 years into his reign as king, was invited to come from Hebron (headquarters for some of the tribes) to Jerusalem (headquarters of another group of tribes, all tracing their descent from Abraham). He managed to hold a sometimes uneasy alliance together for a generation. After Solomon, David's grandson Rehoboam caused the united kingdom to divide, along the same fault lines that David had been able to patch together. David's feat of unity looked great in comparison to his descendants' clumsy efforts to maintain the alliance; a lot of his greatness seemed to be in 20/20 hindsight.
 
/QUOTE]
Everyone sins, does repentance or Grace not count?

Have no idea what your point here --------Waterfall -----it would be good to clarify a bit ---Thanks

I will say this --if this helps
For instance the Gentiles were not included in following the laws in the Old Testament --so their sins were not forgiven nor did they have to atone for their sins --they were away from God -----only Israel was under the laws that God put in place for covering their sins and that only lasted for a time ---
 
Some view scripture as a recipe book we are supposed to follow.

That isn't the claim that scripture makes for itself though.

It does claim that all scripture is God-breathed and useful for instruction. It doesn't say that there will be bad instruction. In fact, the whole premise of the New Testament is that somehow somebody screwed up in their teaching of the Old Testament. How many times do we read Jesus saying, "You have heard it said X but I tell you Y" and if you read the Sermon on the Mount even half-critically you see a much higher standard than many faithful Christians manage or even attempt.

One of the lenses I have been trained to bring to the interpretation of scripture is the history of Redemption.

In essence, scripture moves through a Created Good, to a corrupted good and finally, a Redeemed good.

These two chapters through that lens will not provide a complete picture. They do give a gist of how it plays out.

Corruptible David is at home while Israel is at war. Since when was he not supposed to be at the head of the army of Israel? If David isn't on the front then you know that something is awry. Maybe you expect more from David but the bad swiftly goes to worse. And it isn't like David doesn't have opportunities to put things right, to stop himself before he throws his Kingly weight around.

I suspect we, the readers, are supposed to be appalled by David's failure to be a man after God's own heart and more of a man wanting to scratch and itch. We were warned about Kings. By God no less. This should be leading to some distress and pleas to God to put an end to this. And if God is good why doesn't God step in and put an end to it chide the faithless. They'd find fault in God stepping in and constantly mock those who believe God does step in so there is no way this portion of scripture makes anyone happy.

Meanwhile, David finds new ways to make the worst thing worster.

Then we finally get to the end of God's rope and Nathan is summoned. Why hasn't Nathan been more obvious up till now? Why haven't we seen him in David's presence suggesting he attend to his Kingly responsibilities and get in a chariot and head to the front? Is their trouble in this relationship similar to the trouble between Saul and Samuel? Is Nathan discouraged that David is choosing to squander his Godly start? Who knows?

Nathan still knows David's number and he shares the news that he knows will enrage the King like nothing else. He plays David expertly. No record that God instructed him to do so. God just sends Nathan to him, no script mentioned. Was Nathan in the dark about David's deceptions? Did God reveal the whole sordid thing to Nathan and put the words into his mouth for the confrontation? Scripture is mum on all of that.

So Nathan pushes all of David's buttons. Gets him hot under the collar and David is convinced that a horrible evil has happened in his Kingdom and he is going to put an end to it immediately and powerfully. David commands a sentence appropriate to the crime and his righteous indignation.

"You are the man."

It isn't screamed at David in rage. There are no curses hurled at the same time. Nathan speaks no louder now than he has. It is a truth to power moment and in the face of this truth, power crumbles. David briefly remembers himself. Nathan isn't done and he shares the message that God has sent him to deliver. It isn't pretty and this won't be easy for David to endure. His good start ends in shame.

The child that he sired and tried to hide is the price he will pay. We aren't good with the child as a prop and we wonder why the child should be punished.

Is the child punished though? Did you not hear the word that God sent David. Sending a child into that house wouldn't be a blessing it would be a death sentence, it would make the child a target.

Do we believe all of this and balk at God's ability to redeem the child in God's own way? Does God take time to explain God's self ever?

David's cover-up was not simply to have Bathsheba it was to get the child as well. It would become a lamb of his flock and a sheep of his keeping even though he already proclaimed that the merciless man shall be punished four-fold. He ordered the death sentence.

The child is born and the child falls ill.

Where do we find David now? Is he doing his own thing or is he desperately seeking God's favour? He does everything in his power to have God hear him and to give him the child. God's face is turned away from him. For seven days he begs and pleads and God ignores him.

Is the child suffering and in pain? Scripture doesn't record that it is. Can we imagine the child being in the kind of position where, if it were a senior rather than an infant we would be happier to have it pass away quickly? Aren't we the least bit hypocritical here to imagine that God doesn't care about the child and isn't going to welcome the child into God's own kingdom well before God welcomes David? Or are we shifting the goalposts of goodness like David did to get himself into this mess?

The child dies. David could not prevent it. No longer has the position with God to sway God's mind. How many times did Moses convince God not to wipe out the Israelites in the Wilderness? How many times did Abraham barter with God for the lives of Sodom? God is not hell-bent on destruction or death. God even goes so far as to proclaim God's very self the God of both the living and the dead.

Is David redeemed by the end of the story? Nope, David might have some happy days afterward but he already knows that his reign will end in tears and not happy ones. There is a promise made earlier that God will keep because it is within God's ability to do so. David loses everything because he never had the power to keep it to begin with. His betrayal is the foundation of all the betrayals that will be visited upon him.

The man will pay four-fold because he did this without mercy.

The King commands it so it shall be done.

Those with ears to hear will hear a cautionary tale about Kings, even good Kings, who will go wrong.

Nathan's bit is hauntingly beautiful and probably the kind of thing we hear directed at ourselves from time to time. If we are mature enough.

By no means a happy story. This is why it isn't a recipe for what to do.
 
FYI, there will be a BPoTW this week and it's a bit of reading so I'll bump this one to let you know that the next one is Ruth. The whole thing. It's only four fairly short chapters and tells a single story so I think we can do it all in one sitting.
 
Sounds good.

"Whither thou goest" comes to mind Immediately. I am a little fuzzy on the whole story but will give it a go.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top