Cruxifusion

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paradox3 said:
Thanks for your very informative post, RevJohn.

How long has the group been around? Is it a large group?

The group has existed as an organized entity for several years. I think that the last Annual Conference was my third attending and I think I missed two. The executive existed for a couple of years kicking ideas around before coming up with the Annual Conference plan.

Size. We are a little fluid in membership. Annual Conferences are growing slightly. Roughly 100 clergy across the country and at easily as many laity. We don't sell memberships so there is very little number checking going on.
 
At the crux of the root word crucible that we are placed in as a heated soup ... just to warn the absurd comprehension of sol ... in a domain that believes in following the heart alone. Appears in the pastimes as a primal stew that can be stirred up as dissonant, dissonance, or Eris ... something that goes with Eros ... if you have a curiosity and love for alien things like word ... big odds it's strange to you as Samaritan or other forms like Sat-yre ... or y r we here? Erasmus said to learn but the radicalized emotions would dispose that as a minor thing and thus subtle ...

Like Pluto is an underdog ... way out there as a borderline dogma ... a Shuol tie for those that despise thinkers and tinker who work with the reflective vessel ... as sole thing ... in the bottom line? Have cares about what kind of virtue wedges there as the omega'd edge ... don't jump without some lifetime of work at testing, inquiry, etc. (ξ tender I carious in Greek allowing for a gap in the teeth for mothers supporting children, by mouth whistling, Dixie?) There must be a safe space there ... a sacred domain, hidden where you'd least expect, Gold tooth! Such seem to be distributed sign of s' myth 'n ... perhaps hidden wisdom as seminal ... a kind of absurd sign? Just another word to those that would rather not appreciate or respect it as a shadowy companion ... alloys both desire and intellect ... isn't that an out-of-here consideration ... only for the borderline as suspended!

I'm restricted from saying much on an eternal situation ... tin can Allah? It is malleable ... not like stonewalling ... being stuck ...
 
The group has existed as an organized entity for several years. I think that the last Annual Conference was my third attending and I think I missed two. The executive existed for a couple of years kicking ideas around before coming up with the Annual Conference plan.

Size. We are a little fluid in membership. Annual Conferences are growing slightly. Roughly 100 clergy across the country and at easily as many laity. We don't sell memberships so there is very little number checking going on.


What? A fluid state in a stoically ordered organization! Hard to dis earn ... or shrug off by roué's, or ruse ... utilized in an other metaphor, as gist for carrying on ... some say jest to cause sensations to the near dead! Thus Eris in as inherent domain that we cannot see for be'n rite in it ... (see Exclusion Theory & the uncertainty companion). Small dark seed ... as a point of dialogue about what we don't know.

Is that sort of gritty, blown in the pneumas (Nu maas as heavy flow of sol)? That's al fore yah ... rite now ...
 
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Imagine how unimportant it must feel for United Church officials who have not received personal attention from Stephen.
 
I'm one who has had involvement with both the Community of Concern and Cruxifusion. I've spoken of the two years I spent on the CoC Board of Directors in the past, and don't want to go into it in detail again. To summarize, I knew little about the group, was invited to join their Board in 1995 (I think?) Knowing little about them I asked what their purpose was and was told by the person who invited me that they were a group committed to promoting Jesus as the head of the church and that they had a special concern with the state of theological education. I was interested in both, agreed to join the Board and then spent two years pulling my hair out at Board meetings because every discussion seemed to turn into an attack on the United Church over the "gay issue." At one meeting I expressed some significant concern over the tone of a newsletter that had been just sent out and was shut down and simply told that if I didn't like the newsletter I should save them money by taking my name off the mailing list and telling others who didn't like it to do the same. In other words, this was the only tone they wanted to set. So I did more than take my name off the mailing list. I quit the Board and the organization, and never missed "the angry old men" - which was my nickname for the Board.

Anyway, surprisingly perhaps (because I take him on when he promotes suspicions about Cruxifusion) I find myself largely in agreement with chansen on the issue of the acceptance of CoC funds, perhaps because I had that experience with CoC. I understand the principle of "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" but getting funding from CoC muddies what Cruxifusion is about in my opinion. I'd have turned it down. That's just my opinion, and I have no say in decision making for Cruxifusion, but I think accepting it makes it too easy to link Cruxifusion with CoC's views and agenda. Chansen has done it regularly. He can say above that he doesn't intend to paint Cruxifusion as anti-gay, but he certainly implies that there's something sinister or conspiratorial about the organization, and frankly accepting the funding gave credibility to the charge that Cruxifusion is on the "extreme right wing" of the United Church. It isn't in my experience, but the historical linkage with CoC (through the funding) doesn't help dispel the idea.

My involvement with Cruxifusion is through the Facebook page. I don't know how "membership" in Cruxifusion works. revjohn says there are no membership fees. So how one becomes a member I don't know, nor am I interested. I do not consider myself a member of Cruxifusion just because I'm a member of the Cruxifusion Facebook page. I do find the Cruxifusion Facebook page a good environment for sharing with colleagues whose ministry is Christ-centred first and foremost. One can join the group and share thoughts and ideas without being attacked - which happens in many United Church settings online and otherwise if you express too high a regard for Jesus unfortunately. Theologically, I find the Facebook group theologically diverse, as revjohn described, and while I haven't attended the conferences, I've established several Facebook friendships through the group and have gotten to know many of the "Cruxers" as personally as one can through Facebook. It is a good personal and theological support network. It's not a subversive movement, nor does it have an anti-anything agenda that I've picked up on.

I would maintain, however, that I do agree that it was a mistake to accept funding from the CoC, simply because of the optics involved.
 
@revsdd and @revjohn

Thanks for joining the discussion on this thread. You have both indicated that Cruxifusion is theologically diverse but I would be interested in your reaction to this comment which was made (by me) upthread:

And I suspect that such a Christ-centred metaphorical approach would be welcomed by the Cruxifusion folks in our denomination. But I would love to hear from one of their members directly about this.
 
@revsdd and @revjohn

Thanks for joining the discussion on this thread. You have both indicated that Cruxifusion is theologically diverse but I would be interested in your reaction to this comment which was made (by me) upthread:

I'm not sure what "a Christ-centred metaphorical approach" would be. I can think of several options. Is it one that denies the existence of Jesus and sees him merely as a metaphor? Is it one that believes Jesus existed but believes that ideas such as his divinity or his resurrection are merely metaphorical? Is it one that accepts the traditional view of Jesus but is open to a metaphorical approach to the interpretation of Scripture?

To be honest (and as I said I do not consider myself a member of Cruxifusion, and so do not speak for the group in any way), I think that of the three viewpoints I described above, viewpoint (1) would probably not be accepted by most Cruxifusion people, although I think that as long as a person holding that view was respectful they personally would be welcomed on the Facebook page, which is my only Crux connection. I believe that viewpoints (2) and (3) are well represented and accepted among Cruxifusion people on the page. But viewpoint (1) - Jesus never existed and everything about him is just metaphor - would seem counter to the basic point of the group.

In terms of people being "welcomed" into the group though, I do think that the basic point of Cruxifusion - as far as I understand it - is to establish fellowship and support among like-minded people. It's not - again, as far as I understand it - a reform movement, seeking to change the United Church. So as an organization I think it has to be somewhat restrictive in its membership so that it fulfils the purpose of providing fellowship and support to like minded people. If it were open to almost all viewpoints (including that Jesus was nothing more than a metaphor) then I think it would probably descend into little more than the United Church Facebook group - which I left a long time ago and have no desire to ever return to because of the judgemental and even nasty tone of the thing.
 
@revsdd , @paradox3 was responding to my post below which would be the same as your second scenario.

Depends on your definition of "Christ-centred", doesn't it? Someone who follows Jesus as their principle prophet or moral teacher but takes the supernatural elements of the story (miracles, virgin birth, and resurrection) metaphorically might consider themselves "Christ-centred" but may not be accepted as such by those who take things more literally.
 
@revsdd , @paradox3 was responding to my post below which would be the same as your second scenario.
Yup. But I wasn't entirely clear that in her question @paradox3 was restricting the term "Christ-centred metaphorical approach" to your definition of the term, which would be viewpoint (2) as I described above. There would be other ways to adopt a Christ-centred metaphorical approach, as I pointed out.
 
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I would maintain, however, that I do agree that it was a mistake to accept funding from the CoC, simply because of the optics involved.
Inclined to agree with Revsdd and chansen here. I had been under the impression Cruxifusion was more "right-leaning" that it actually seems to be. Now that we are talking about it.
 
Because of the appearance that Cruxifusion was an outgrowth of various very theologically traditional/conservative movements within the UCCan (including CoC, UCRF and the NACC) none of which I had any affinity with I was dubious about the organization for many years. I first remember hearing about it in 2010 in the final edition of Fellowship magazine (one of the only issues I actually read any of).

But eventually I joined the FB group (have no other contact other than that) and am certainly an outlier within the group because my Christology appears much lower than every one else's (not surprising since my Christology is not, technically, Chalcedonian orthodox). But at the same time I insist that the central piece of Christian story is the Jesus event (life death and resurrection) and what God is doing in that event.

There are times I find it a challenging place to be. There are times I find it a great place for actual conversation--which is not always true in the UCCan
 
paradox3 said:
And I suspect that such a Christ-centred metaphorical approach would be welcomed by the Cruxifusion folks in our denomination. But I would love to hear from one of their members directly about this.


Cruxifusion presupposes that to be Christ-centered one must adhere to some kind of Christology.

High, low, or somewhere in between.

Conversations indicate that Cruxifusion tends toward higher Christologies than it does lower.

Basically, Jesus existed was identified as Christ and then everything that follows is up for grabs.

Anyone of the opinion that Jesus never existed and is of no significance at all would probably not find Cruxifusion to be a good fit.

[FONT=Open Sans, sans-serif]We talk about him quite a bit.[/FONT]
 
Mendalla said:
Banning Stephen Booth seems to be a rite of passage for UCCan sites.:rolleyes::D

True enough.

I wouldn't have even known he was on the Cruxifusion Canada page had he not messaged me several times to tell me not to get him banned.

Of course by the time I contacted the admin to give them a heads up they were already in conflict with Stephen Booth and they wound up tossing him without any input from me.
 
As far as optics are concerned there is at least one proverb about judging books by covers.

I think that Cruxifusion, being the creation of a younger generation, probably pays less attention to optics than an older generation might.

If anything that is them being naive and I think that they actually stand up to anything resembling fair-minded scrutiny.

Those who operate as if surface glimmers speak to substance are content to judge out of ignorance.

Most everyone here has known me for more years than they have known about Cruxifusion yet I have not been subjected to the same kind of scrutiny or suspicion.

Unless I have been and never noticed.

Anyone think about revsdd differently now. He has never hidden that he was COC of course, he doesn't tend to lead with that bit of information does he?

What about GordW? Is he suddenly more suspicious now?

Books and covers.

Without knowing you have been reading the book for years. Suddenly the cover matters more.
 
I have shared before that one of my husband's relatives was a member of CoC, travelling across country to attend events in Hamilton. He also was a strong Albertan who was a strong supporter of the Reform Party. He was a wonderful man and it wasn't until we got into a few discussions that I realized how angry and anti-gay he was. Sadly, he lost friends over it. He also hurt people. I can understand how @revsdd may not have been aware of the focus until you were in community and felt the vehemence. I also trust that those who say in community, that vehemence was not able to take hold in Cruxifusion
 
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