comments from Corner Brook

[Pinga]

Thank-you GordW, and I would say that this has been the belief since inception......I find the word "beginning" dismissive of the history of the church.

 

[Jaebius]

Thank-you GordW, and I would say that this has been the belief since inception......I find the word "beginning" dismissive of the history of the church.

If that's so Pinga, that's wonderful! Props to the United Church of Canada! That would be quite a feat, since the current missional discussion began in earnest in the early 1950s, while the UCCanada was founded in 1925.

 

[Carolla]

jae - perhaps you're just getting stuck on the word 'missional' - not viewing a broader picture of life of the church.

 

[Jaebius]

jae - perhaps you're just getting stuck on the word 'missional' - not viewing a broader picture of life of the church.

It isn't the word that's important Carolla. It's the concept. Would love to see some documents from the UCCanada from 1925 that supported the concept. So what am I on about anyway? I'm suggesting that the priorities of any Christian denomination ought to be mission, discipleship, and evangelism. Those priorities should be far, far ahead of those presented in the UCCanada list.

 

[Mendalla]

It isn't the word that's important Carolla. It's the concept. Would love to see some documents from the UCCanada from 1925 that supported the concept. So what am I on about anyway? I'm suggesting that the priorities of any Christian denomination ought to be mission, discipleship, and evangelism. Those priorities should be far, far ahead of those presented in the UCCanada list.

Perhaps the UCCan views the items in the list as specifics falling under one or more of your very broad headings. They are not thinking about those headings consciously, but I'd say that trying to be God's voice on issues like those falls under either mission or discipleship. Just because they don't use the language does not mean they aren't doing it.

Same with your comment about how remarkable it was that the UCCan was missional in 1925 when discussion about "missional" churches began in the 1950s. Theoretical frameworks like "missional church" are not created from whole cloth and then applied in my experience; they are developed based on existing reality as a way of evaluating things that are already happening. IOW, no one sat down and said out of the blue "let's define and develop missional churches". Rather, they likely did a study of some sort of churches and out of studying what those churches were doing, they defined and developed the concept of a "missional church". In fact, missional churches likely existed right from the beginning of Christianity even if there was no "missional church" theory to guide them.

The bottom line is that no one needs your theoretical framework to be missional and not all churches need to be run the way you are describing as "missional". If you want apply missional church theory consciously in your church, go for it. But don't assume that everyone who isn't using the language isn't doing it. Far too many social movements have been led astray by focussing too much on language and theory rather than just looking at the reality around them.

 

[Carolla]

It isn't the word that's important Carolla. It's the concept. Would love to see some documents from the UCCanada from 1925 that supported the concept. So what am I on about anyway? I'm suggesting that the priorities of any Christian denomination ought to be mission, discipleship, and evangelism. Those priorities should be far, far ahead of those presented in the UCCanada list.

jae - your on-going negativity about the United Church is tiresome & predictable. Also somewhat inappropriate that you continue to go on about it in this thread, which is in the "UCCan Talk" forum - set up for discussion of matters of the UCCan by members of the UCCan - & those who choose to respectfully engage.

If you're genuinely interested in UCCan history (as you no doubt will claim you are) - feel free to register for a course in church history - I imagine there is such a thing at Emmanuel ... or read the various books published on the subject to inform yourself. Presumptuous of you to be telling the UCCan what its priorities SHOULD be, without actually knowing the history. More of that innuendo trolling behaviour I think. Enough said.

 

[crazyheart]

part of living out the Missio Dei. )

I am not familiar with Missio Dei' What does it mean?

 

[BetteTheRed]

Latin for God's Mission; how very disingenuous to cloak a new pop paradigm in the language of the oldest church.

 

[Carolla]

This is a terrific sermon we heard one morning ... Be Brave My Church ... Etienne Lesage is a wonderful young minister - moving I think to a church in Stoney Creek - near Hamilton ON. He was also one of the intercultural observers for GC42 - so full of energy and Spirit. Take 20 minutes for a listen.

 

[Carolla]

Throughout the week - on the worship table - there was a very special bible, in a glass case. In this photo, you can see new moderator Rt. Reverend Jordan Cantwell signing it - as every moderator before her has also done.
(hmmm - can't seem to get the photo to link ... it's from flicker ... any hints?)

 

[GordW]

Latin for God's Mission; how very disingenuous to cloak a new pop paradigm in the language of the oldest church.

well since it is hardly a new cnocept...one the church has talked about in some form for 2000 years, why not?

 

[Luce NDs]

Glass table, a tablet unseen as a glass sole or crystal slipper as it moved on with god's intellect ... sort of out-of-Eire?

Do thin missio dei, or deis, dayze; move quicker than chunky parts? Thus Arian things in the Valkyrie ... often miss understood and walked on ... that inner woe mon? I do believe it Toby ... grand mother clause ...

Part and parcel of the genes as mitochondrial ...

 

[revjohn]

Now that I am back in Ontario and not basking in the love that is NL I feel up to offering some commentary.

First, I was asked by General Council Staff to be a Table Group Facilitator. It was a small thing for the most part except for the fact that it acknowledges I exercise leadership well and that my leadership skills were felt to be an asset to General Council 42 as a whole.

So, I exercised my leadership skills at table 19.

At my table was one moderator nominee the (then) reverend (now right reverend) Jordan Cantwell. Being a nominee for Moderator must be a tough gig. Imagine wanting to feel comfortable and at home among a small group of people while at the same time wanting to be considered a candidate for the most pastoral office in the denomination? The right reverend comported herself with dignity and humility. In the end my discernment did not lead me to cast a ballot in her favour. I am not convinced that her election should be a source of grief for any.

I disagreed with some of her exegesis during her sermon.

Please note that as a Calvinist I am seriously alarmed when I agree with all of anyone's exegesis.

Apart from that this was the Jesusist General Council I am aware of. Right from the start Jesus was mentioned and honoured by pretty much everyone in a very unapologetic manner. In fact it Jesus was so in our faces that it seemed to me like a message was being sent. Something like, "In The United Church of Canada Jesus does matter."

Opening Sermon delivered by the reverend Ian Macuish (written by wife the reverend Faith March-Macuish who was recovering from surgery) was good solid NL olde tyme gospel preaching. And Hamilton Conference newcomer Etienne LeSage preached a solide olde tyme gospel sermon at Friday morning worship.

The good news--We ratified a vote to enter into full Communion with the United Church of Christ. My only regret is that the holier than thous now have another denomination to tar and feather. On the plus side it says that somewhere nearby there is a denomination which has looked at us, considered us and felt that working with us would not be an impediment to their Christian walk.

They are hoping to learn from us as much as we are hoping to learn from them and to be honest, growing up in a denomination which loves to replay the highlights and bury the lowlights to the point of needing corrective surgery on our shoulders from patting ourselves on the back so frequently it is nice to be appreciated.

We also signed formal ministry agreements with the Presbyterian Church in the Republic of Korea and the Uniting Church in the Phillipines. Two other sister denominations that appear to like the cut of our Jib. Not full communion but a step in that direction.

With that kind of goodwill maybe, just maybe the UCCAN can break the habit of tooting our own horn just a bit.

I'm not overly optimistic I do live in hope that we can finally begin to wrestle with that third element in the Micah 6: 8 passage we love to quote so much.

Other highlights include Moose for supper one night and Cod au gratin another.

Low lights? Just one moment of ickyness. Apparently a complaint was made about all of our black clergy commissioners sitting together. That action was enough to make the complainant "uneasy and suspicious". I hope the identity of the complanant is never revealed I also hope that they felt the collective slap of disgust the rest of the court offered when the complaint was made public. I also do not think that dropping that particular turd was appropriate in the context of worship it should have been relayed to the court outside of worship.

Which just goes to show that there are certain individuals in the UCCAN who are seriously out of touch with the world around them. I mean if some of us are still uneasy about race is it any wonder there is some lag in other areas where equity is an issue?

And what about Comprehensive Review? The primary focus of the agenda. No change is imminent yet we are sending a number of Category 3 Remits to Congregations and Presbyteries which have the power to make change happen. Stay tuned for more on that as it happens.

One Order of Ministry goes to remit and will require a study period. I certainly hope that the materials accompanying that are better written than that disaster of a report. Discussion surrounding that document was both illuminating and depressing.

That is just a surface view. No time at present to mine the depths. I can respond to questions as they arise and time permits.

 

[Luce NDs]

Out of touch turds in heaven ... and such fallout in our church is there ... like people isolating or separating lesser folks with metaphysical Wahls ... or just weals of disgust? NOSH-ite in alien tong! Too haut to touch ... thus a tool for black's myth in ... so extroverts can't see the impossible ...

 

[crazyheart]

Thanks John

Little question, will we be at all involved in the N and S Korean tensions?

 

[revjohn]

Fair question.

I do not see, at this present time, anything from the UCCAN that signals diplomatic relations in Korea are tracking on our radar.

I expect that we will probably enter into some kind of discussion with our ecumenical brothers and sisters to see if there is something we might be supportive of.

 

[Luce NDs]

We are all involved in the infinite state even though it may be invisible to us ... A'tues? Thus the walking dead theory!

 

[Mrs.Anteater]

Wondering about the remits being sent out to Presbyteries and congregations- will that mean that Presbytery will have the first say in the vote if they will no longer exist? In that case, isn't that the same as asking the Senate to vote on dissolving itself?

 

[revjohn]

will that mean that Presbytery will have the first say in the vote if they will no longer exist?

Not the first nor last say but a say.

For a category 3 remit to pass it needs the support of a majority of Presbyteries and Pastoral Charges.

In that case, isn't that the same as asking the Senate to vote on dissolving itself?

Presumeably this was what the comprehensive review heard the Church saying in its feedback. If they heard accurately then Presbytery will be eliminated. If they did not hear accurately it will remain.

Oddly nobody thought to set a remit asking if we thought that the General Council level should or shouldn't be eliminated.

Conferences won't even have a say.

Apart from that this particular remit doesn't save time or money for the Church. Work will still need to be done. This was one of the head in the sand options we afforded ourselves.

 

[Luce NDs]

Gutte Goed John what a comment ... out there ... in the sans with lines painted in ochre ... burned al mon? In the Greek white stone theory this is corrupt ... a stain on the canvas ... impure in tent?