Civil Disobedience

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Rita, your civil disobedience examples remind me of someone defending crying "Fire" in a crowded theatre, followed by "only joking"...

And they make a mockery of true civil disobedience, like Mahatma Ghandi's for India's independence, like Rosa Parks' refusal to move to the back of the bus.
 

“The definitive feature of civil disobedience is protest coupled with the willful violation of law. In a protest involving civil disobedience protesters are willing indeed, ideologically committed to be criminally stigmatized in order to make a political statement.”

Given that the law of Canada includes constitutionally protected rights and freedoms (i.e. the Charter), not every act of civil disobedience may be ultimately illegal. This is because section 52 of the Constitution Act, 1982 provides that the constitution is the supreme law of Canada, and laws that are inconsistent with the constitution are of no force or effect. In this sense, protest activities that are protected under the Charter may not really count as civil disobedience at all, although we still often think of and refer to them that way.

The second form of civil disobedience would be those activities which are not protected by the Charter and are therefore illegal and subject to either civil or criminal sanctions, which is really the true form of civil disobedience. Even though they are not protected by the Charter and are subject to sanction, these actions may still draw attention to particular inequities in law and policy and create impetus for legal change.

Overall then, laws can be challenged either in a proactive, pre-emptive constitutional challenge, or more reactively by disobeying the law and fighting the consequences on Charter grounds. If the Charter argument fails, or if none is made, the result is that the civil disobedience actually was a breach of the law. The person in question would then be penalized under whatever law they breached, with the penalties depending on the particular statute.
 
I am having a friend from Germany visiting me right now and we have been many places. The nation park (Keji) has three short walking trails that are allowed ( leading to a beach and along the campground). The lake and river are open, but not for overnight. It is a huge area and if a fire was started, it would be a big task to evacuate the area if everyone would be spread out. Several small fires were put out the last days in towns and wooded areas thanks to the awareness of individuals smelling smoke without finding the cause at first.
Precautions are rules applying to everyone, and to think” but I am responsible, I don’t need to follow rules “- is just a self-centred way of thinking. Its like we don’t need rules of the road because I am such a good driver.
 
We also visited Peggy’s cove. One idiot with a fishing rod staged himself on the outer rock while his buddy made a video of him. His buddy was in a position with his second foot hanging down on the slippery moss while the regular waves almost reaching him. They now have a guard with a whistle there. They reluctantly moved away from the rock, hearing him. The guard said all that can be done if he had fallen in, was to call the coast guard to retrieve the body. Freedom for own choices? Stops there, because that would affect many people watching and the ones retrieving the body.
 
Imagine what label you would attach to a thinking body that was to get beyond self-centeredness! Hollowed-out, dead, floater, etc. Would these things drift like ghosts, vestiges, tinctures, toxic potions ... mortal devices? Damn ... didn't see it ... mostly words of warning in relief ... beneath the visible horizon ...

That's blind functions ... unconscious as passions ... lord chi woke me again in the middle of rest ... all that's left ... runaway democrats? Enigmas ...

Could be a problem ... humanitarian paradoxid ...oxidation? The reaction between the reduced and the alternate that just lies there unaware (not WOKE)!

If one does not function ... something will occur ... thus flying thoughts ... intellectual dissonance ...
 
“The definitive feature of civil disobedience is protest coupled with the willful violation of law. In a protest involving civil disobedience protesters are willing indeed, ideologically committed to be criminally stigmatized in order to make a political statement.”

And this - not being allowed to hike because of forest fire prevention - is the cause you’re choosing?
 
I am still "legitimately" allowed to hike in my neck of the woods. Yesterday, after a lot of rain, I started out towards the trails adjacent to my yard. As I got closer I noticed that I was walking toward a haze of smoke and that the smell of wet smoke was getting stronger. I returned home and closed the windows. It was not a nice day for a walk in the woods but I was "extremely" grateful for the rain. I do not live in Nova Scotia. If I did I probably would not have even started out towards the "illegal"woods. A fine of 25,000. dollars is just not something that I could afford to pay or to fight against in court. One way or another, I am responsible for my own choices and I am good with that. Should a ban be implemented where I currently reside I have enough personal space to not be overly restricted from my usual activities so It would be a minor inconvenience for me --not a hill to die on. Given that it is still hazy here and more rain in the clouds - I have made the choice to not go for walk in the woods again today.

Still, I am in agreement with this statement:

When governments impose rules that are absurd or disproportionate, they risk undermining respect for rules that do make sense. People stop listening. And when no one takes fire bans seriously, the entire effort to prevent fires can backfire.

This isn’t just poor policy, it may also be illegal.

Access to Crown land in Canada is a regulated right. Provinces can impose restrictions, but that power must be exercised reasonably, lawfully, and for the purposes intended by the legislation. Administrative law requires that discretion be justified, transparent, and rational.

The Forests Act permits travel restrictions into specific zones. But a province-wide ban on all forest access, including activities that carry no real risk, is likely beyond what the law allows. And it may violate constitutional rights, including liberty under section 7 of the Charter, and potentially Aboriginal and treaty rights under section 35.

There’s even a government tip line encouraging people to report suspected forest walkers. Sound familiar? It should. This kind of “snitch culture” dominated the COVID-19 era, when we were told to report neighbors for hosting family dinners. Once again, safety is being weaponized to justify authoritarianism.

This ideology is sometimes called safetyism. It elevates protection from harm above all else, even at the cost of freedom, dignity, and common sense.

Safetyism is what allows governments to lock people out of public spaces, close schools, crush small businesses, and trample civil liberties, so long as the claim it is “for your own good.”

The real tragedy here is how many people are defending these measures. Some say, “Well, if people go for a walk, they might also light a fire or smoke a cigarette.” That’s like saying people shouldn’t drive because they might run someone over. You don’t ban walking. You ban the dangerous behavior.

When governments treat everything as dangerous, everything becomes subject to control. But when safety becomes an excuse for state overreach, everyone loses.

Christine Van Geyn is a Canadian lawyer and bestselling author. She is the host of the national broadcast television program Canadian Justice, a YouTuber, Podcaster, and professional speaker.
 
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I had an interesting conversation with my sister in Germany. They jad a huge storm in Berlin, causing a lot of trees to come down, and so they had to close some parks because they couldn’t keep up with cutting down the trees and wood threatening to fall down. They have a fence around it and warning signs that there is danger to one’s life.
However, people keep ignoring it. Same attitude as the guy above-“ I can do what I want”.
So, here is my theory- this attitude is similar as a toddler or a teenager having a fit. Their character is not developed enough to look away from themselves and recognize the interdependence of humans and the value of doing something ( or not doing something) for the sake of a group or another.
In older generations, kids are taught to respect authority, doctors, police, adults. That is no longer the wide spread rule in Western society. It would need to be replaced with the insight that we all depend on each other, but because of the individualism we are raised with, that insight doesn’t happen until later in life. And sometimes it doesn’t happen at all.
Reflecting on what gives us this insight, we came up with that it is the experience of our own weakness and the gift of support by others. Again, something not everyone experiences. And for a healthy adult, and thanks to the health system we are all taking for granted, the experience of weakness comes a lot later in life than in previous generations.
The experience of weakness ( sickness, loss, helplessness), can lead to different reactions. If not prepared to admit to not be invincible, people tend to become angry and blame others. Very common.
If met with kindness, there is the chance of understanding our connectedness and admit we are not as strong as we want to be ( no man is an island).
My sister, who is a retired physio, described how she is now “ on the other side”of the helping profession. And how much a kind word is important when she goes to her radiation treatment. Instead of being treated like a number.
Reminded me of a quote I read that I had tried to make my former congregation understand ( which only lead to an aggressive reaction by the minister) - that the one’s receiving the help need to forgive the one’s helping…
So only the experience of real love and acceptance is what it comes down to….
 
I had an interesting conversation with my sister in Germany. They jad a huge storm in Berlin, causing a lot of trees to come down, and so they had to close some parks because they couldn’t keep up with cutting down the trees and wood threatening to fall down. They have a fence around it and warning signs that there is danger to one’s life.
However, people keep ignoring it. Same attitude as the guy above-“ I can do what I want”.
So, here is my theory- this attitude is similar as a toddler or a teenager having a fit. Their character is not developed enough to look away from themselves and recognize the interdependence of humans and the value of doing something ( or not doing something) for the sake of a group or another.
In older generations, kids are taught to respect authority, doctors, police, adults. That is no longer the wide spread rule in Western society. It would need to be replaced with the insight that we all depend on each other, but because of the individualism we are raised with, that insight doesn’t happen until later in life. And sometimes it doesn’t happen at all.
Reflecting on what gives us this insight, we came up with that it is the experience of our own weakness and the gift of support by others. Again, something not everyone experiences. And for a healthy adult, and thanks to the health system we are all taking for granted, the experience of weakness comes a lot later in life than in previous generations.
The experience of weakness ( sickness, loss, helplessness), can lead to different reactions. If not prepared to admit to not be invincible, people tend to become angry and blame others. Very common.
If met with kindness, there is the chance of understanding our connectedness and admit we are not as strong as we want to be ( no man is an island).
My sister, who is a retired physio, described how she is now “ on the other side”of the helping profession. And how much a kind word is important when she goes to her radiation treatment. Instead of being treated like a number.
Reminded me of a quote I read that I had tried to make my former congregation understand ( which only lead to an aggressive reaction by the minister) - that the one’s receiving the help need to forgive the one’s helping…
So only the experience of real love and acceptance is what it comes down to….

Then you insert the propaganda of fear of balancing mores and ethics and all goes to hell in a handbasket unless there is a conscience as Sophia in the background ... is wisdom like an angel in an impossible dimension like mind, psyche ... soul singularity? Alien device of mind ... fey ephemeral ghostly?

Just a flicker in the corner of by thought "dans la boite" ... fantastic icon in other languages ...

Makes wonder about the extent of God's word and its understanding as something confined because of isolation of fields (Wahls) of study?

Getting into other languages opens up the field of perception ...
 
Sometimes to their detriment...eg. following Hitler.
We swing completely left or right, but have we learned there's a middle ground?
Middle ground is an easier concept to the safe middle class but not to those who are collateral damage in the world’s problems. They’ve got plenty to be upset about and really they push the consciences of the middle class eventually. After much consternation.
 
Middle ground is an easier concept to the safe middle class but not to those who are collateral damage in the worlds problems.
What can we expect when the support system is rattled by uncertainty ... the immune system kicks in overdrive ... stress disorders ... dissonance?

It is difficult to evaluate when you are right in the thick of the storm and turbulence (dissonance).
 
What can we expect when the support system is rattled by uncertainty ... the immune system kicks in overdrive ... stress disorders ... dissonance?

It is difficult to evaluate when you are right in the thick of the storm and turbulence (dissonance).
Kimmio, it does require extra ordinary potential ... and are we prepared for that when resources for such are all stored in vessels ... a enigma poorly handled when wealth is worshipped. Pits celebrity against the celibate ... the venerable Bede? Then what if the Bede is corrupted by mysterious forces ... can such a shrine be corrupted? Then in some the shrine is out of sight like in Shinto ... accounts for the hidden City ... Cite AE?

Down there a lot of clay vessels and hard heroes ... not vey fluid after extremely rough exposure to trauma ... authorities do not care about such things.

Some Roosevelts warned about this when depression set in ... men need to be occupied with something useful ... then avarice automated the race ... though decreased ... self-organized limitation (mortality syndrome). A sense of ominous nature descends over the marketplace of humanity with great destructive side effects ... tyrant believe force will control it force against force with no moderation ... a bull in the potters shop?

Is there a theme of self determined destruction ... our worst enemy is within ... a mule, a mole ... not very bright? Resolution? Wipe out ...
 
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