Christianity and other religions

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Bishop Spong, in his early years, said we have no right to try to share Christianity with those who already have their own sense of the Holy.

Spiritual seekers were different in his mind. Not sure if this changed as he got older and more strident.
I don't see why sharing is a problem. It is the idea that Christianity has to shove it down unwilling throats that is the problem. If you are sharing with the intent of telling people what you believe and hoping they get something from it, I do not see a problem. It is when the goal of sharing is winning converts that it becomes problematic.
 
I think Bishop Spong was getting at the need to respect other faith traditions. This little snippet is from a video presentation I saw many years ago.

There are many nuances to sharing faith when you think about it
 
Redbaron ----and if LOL is going against the code of Conduct so should the symbol of the emoji of laughing to the point of crying you posted on 2 of my posts here ---one on page 12 Post 227 and one on page 14 Post 263 and on many others in other threads ----:ROFLMAO:so if anyone is going against the code of conduct it is the both of us -----so you better include yourself in the violation ----just because you are a monitor doesn't exempt you from the code of conduct and if it does it is a hypocritical system ----and your being a bully -----just saying ----:ROFLMAO:
The emojis were directed at the post, not the poster. You have not been bullied.
 
BetteTheRed --you said -----He did, but he also said that anyone who is not against me, is for me. Doesn't mean the same thing.

I say --you wish ------this is what Jesus really said ----which is a little different than your take on it -----


Matthew 12:40
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
“Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

Luke 9:50
English Standard Version
But Jesus said to him, “Do not stop him, for the one who is not against you is for you.”
 
Redbarron -----If I am the poster then your LOL symbol is directed at me who wrote the post ----so your trying to dodge the issue and claim innocent -----and your post was --- threatening and intimidating so you were being a bully ----
 
Waterfall you said ------Even within Christianity, a certain "smugness" ....as in I'm right, you're wrong kind of thing

Here is the thing -----the Scripture themselves say they are right and true -----and while I agree that many --many people who call themselves Christians are not Christians that have received Jesus as their Lord and saviour ----- they are just using the word Christian to express their belief only in their self righteousness so they think they are all that and their ego is puffed up

----People who actually have received Jesus in their hearts Believe the Scriptures which Says they are Right and True -----so these Christians I would hope would say they Believe what the Scriptures say ----which is the Word is from God and it is Right and True -----which Gives God the Glory not ourselves -

I personally think----- unbelievers will always put the blame on anyone who says they are Christians to take the blame off themselves for their unbelief of what the Scriptures really say which is God's word is right and true ----- and they don't like what the scriptures say so their defence is to lash out at people who Call themselves Christians calling them smug and arrogant -----When really it is smug and arrogant of the unbeliever to unrecognise what Jesus did for them on the Cross and turn their backs and put their noses up in the air to snub what was done for them ------Just saying ----

I see Scriptures as you either believe them or you don't -----there is no right and wrong involved --it is all about our free choice to believe them or not -----we like to think right and wrong ---but Jesus said your either for me or against me -----your choice --no right or wrong here ----
Thankyou for your opinion, always good to hear what others believe.
 
Redbarron -----If I am the poster then your LOL symbol is directed at me who wrote the post ----so your trying to dodge the issue and claim innocent -----and your post was --- threatening and intimidating so you were being a bully ----
Whatevs.
 
In the real world actions deserve reactions or we wouldn't know any consequences of echo's, egos or whatever ...

So the virtual racket continues on deep in the halls of just Isis ... elsewhere the sharing may differ ...

Thus word clusters ... lumps ?
 
BetteTheRed --you said -----He did, but he also said that anyone who is not against me, is for me. Doesn't mean the same thing.

I say --you wish ------this is what Jesus really said ----which is a little different than your take on it -----


Matthew 12:40
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
“Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

Luke 9:50
English Standard Version
But Jesus said to him, “Do not stop him, for the one who is not against you is for you.”

The fact remains that what Jesus says in Matthew is the opposite of what Jesus says in Luke. You deliberately picked a translation that said "you" referring to the disciples, rather than "us", which refers to Jesus as well.

Try this Luke 9:50 (this is why translation matters):

KJ21
And Jesus said unto him, “Forbid him not; for he that is not against us, is for us.”
 
In our progressive group, Tuesday nights, we're working through an Anglican/KAIROS documentary plus study guide entitled "Doctrine of Discovery". We invite a reading or a prayer before the 2 min meditation which starts each session. Tonight, our friend Lois shared this, which I just loved, and brought me back to the OP:

Indigenous Jesus​

Matt Laney

When Creator Sets Free [Jesus] saw the great crowd, he went back up the mountainside and sat down to teach the people. His followers came to him there. So he took a deep breath, opened his mouth, and began to share his wisdom and to teach them how to see the Creator’s Good Road [the gospel]. - Matthew 5:1-2, First Nations Version (FNV)
The notion that God sent Jesus from heaven to earth to save the lowly earthlings might be the theological root of colonialism and cultural supremacy.
What if, as the First Nations Version: An Indigenous Translation of the New Testament assumes, Jesus was indigenous? What shifts as we view colonialism as antithetical to the gospel?
“Indigenous” comes from the Latin indu, meaning “within,” and gignere, meaning “to beget.” Something or someone is indigenous if they emerged from within this ecosystem or are begotten of this land, not imposed from outside this land.
An indigenous Christ doesn’t enter the world from an extraterrestrial realm to impose a foreign truth. An indigenous Christ emerges within this creation as the truly Natural One who calls us back to ourselves, back to the earth, back to all our relations.
Therefore, the point of Jesus’ Good Road (the gospel) is not becoming something else, but becoming truly ourselves, accessing the divinity that is natural and indigenous to every person and to all creation.
Christianity has been used and abused as a force of colonization in the name of “saving” indigenous people. That is an outrageous tragedy. Perhaps indigenous Christians, and an indigenous Christ, will help save Christianity.
Prayer
Indigenous One, as we begin Indigenous Heritage Month, remind us all, indigenous and nonindigenous alike, that you do not impose your will from on high. Remind us that you are Emmanuel, God-with-us, inviting us to walk your Good Road.
 
Last edited:
As a person, as a church person, as a sometime leader of people, I want so much to move us into "places we can all be, kindly, together".
 
Oh, and if anyone would really like to delve into new testament organizational wyrdness, do check out Tolstoy's Gospel. All of Jesus's sayings, no miracles, no actions, organized by idea.
 
As usual (to use the patronIzing phrase GordW directs at unsafe), unsafe has schooled our UCCan pastors and their lay echo chamber. on the question of whether the NT can comment on its own status as Scripture. Consider just 2 NT texts that refute their claim. I will quote from the NRSV and append the editorial comments of the Harper Collins Bible editors:
1 Timothy 5:18 "For the Scripture says, "You shall not muzzle on ox while it is treading out the grain (Deuteronomy 25:4)" and ""The laborer deserves to be paid (Luke 10:7)."
The Gospels here are regarded as Scripture alongside the OT.""

"There are some things in them [Paul's letters] that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction,
as they do THE OTHER SCRIPTURES (2 Peter 3:17)."
"The reference to Paul's letters alongside the other Scriptures shows that they were already being treated as Scripture."

The issue of whether the NT writings are actually divinely inspired is of course unprovable and irrelevant to the point at issue.
 
1. Legitimate biblical scholarship has been long since able to demonstrate that the two writings you cite as "proof" are pseudonymous writings from the late first or early second centuries C.E. Part of these findings come from cross-disciplinary studies of history and literature. Most modern study Bibles from reputable scholars and publishers would inform you of those realities.

2. The attempt to prove such a point is really out of place in this thread. This thread is about the connections between world religious traditions, not about the futile attempts to prove whatever it is you are trying to promulgate.

If you and unsafe want to continue this line of discussion, kindly start your own thread to do so, and stop hijacking other decent discussion threads for your own agenda.
 
Redbaron ----I was answering a Post directed at me by GordW ----post 270 page 14 ----

this is the post from him -----

I say ---with all due respect -----show me where I said anything about a recognised list of Christian Followers of Jesus writings ----I think your missing the point ---the Scriptures are God inspired and they are alive ---and active
OK, then in your own words (no quoting some other source) what do YOU believe the writer of 2 Timothy was referring to when they wrote that all "SCripture" is God-Breathed/given by the inspiration of God/inspired by GOd (depending on the translation one uses for that verse).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And this is me answering GordW's post to me personally

This is 2 Timothy 3 verses 10-17--ERV -------Paul is speaking to Timothy and He says

10 But you know all about me. You know what I teach and the way I live. You know my goal in life. You know my faith, my patience, and my love. You know that I never stop trying. 11 You know about my persecutions and my sufferings. You know all the things that happened to me in Antioch, Iconium, and Lystra—the persecution I suffered in those places. But the Lord saved me from all of it.

12 Everyone who wants to live showing true devotion to God in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.

13 People who are evil and cheat others will become worse and worse. They will fool others, but they will also be fooling themselves.

14 But you should continue following the teaching you learned. You know it is true, because you know you can trust those who taught you.

15 You have known the Holy Scriptures[b] since you were a child. These Scriptures are able to make you wise. And that wisdom leads to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

16 All Scripture is given by God. And all Scripture is useful for teaching and for showing people what is wrong in their lives. It is useful for correcting faults and teaching the right way to live.

17 Using the Scriptures, those who serve God will be prepared and will have everything they need to do every good work.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My words here verse 14 ---------He is telling Timothy to continue following what he has learned from Paul -----

MY Words here --Verse 15 ---------is saying that in his childhood the Hebrew Scriptures were passed on to him and says that the Holy Scriptures are able to make you wise ----which says to me that the Rhema words that were spoken to Timothy from childhood from the Holy Scriptures could make him wise ----just words can'r make a person wise --which say to me that they were God Inspired ----and that wisdom is what Leads to Salvation through Faith in Jesus Christ ----in the New Testament ----

My words here ----verse 16 ----All Scripture is given by God ---this says here --same as God inspired --God breathed ---etc --all means the same ===and it says ALL --if it was referring to the Hebrews Scriptures only in would say -- THOSE Scriptures are God inspired ----in verse 15 --it says THESE Scriptures which is referring to the Hebrew Scriptures -----

My words verse 17 ------it says ----using THE scriptures ----those who serve God will be prepared for all they need to do good works -----the Scriptures indicated all scriptures -----that are God breathed ----

The Greek word for ALL in this scripture is

Strong's Concordance
pas: all, every
Original Word: πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pas
Phonetic Spelling: (pas)
Definition: all, every
Usage: all, the whole, every kind of.

HELPS Word-studies
3956 páseach, every; each "part(s) of a totality" (L & N, 1, 59.24).

3956 /pás ("each, every") means "all" in the sense of "each (every) part that applies." The emphasis of the total picture then is on "one piece at a time." 365 (ananeóō) then focuses on the part(s) making up the whole – viewing the whole in terms of the individual parts.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I say ------So if you want to believe otherwise GordW ---that is up to you -----But By the Rhema word a person is Saved ------words alone won't save you -----they have to be God inspired

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So don't be sending purple messages to me about answering a post -----I am allowed to answer a person and if you remember many time you have accused me of not answering your post -----and 2 people have told you I did actually answer your question directed at me when you kept on about me not answering your question ------Mendalla and revjohn both to you I did actually answer your question -----

So if you want to sent purple messages you had better make sure your conversations are on point and clean from all code of conduct laws set up here ---cause your a Monitor and you need to set a good example for the code of conduct --if you don't then your are being a Hypocrite -----by chastising other for doing what you do yourself ----Just saying --fair is fair
 
It is said that there are laws (gospel) and to every law there is an exception constructed to make one ponder why the initial law was posed without any basis to found it on ... thus most physical laws ignore the essence ... said to be a disposed thought.

Authorities do not like thinkers; look what the Romans did to all the ancient wise men (declared them myth and put them down).

The circa continues as an ongoing circular thought ... because really all fey beasts don't know much ... unless they can gather and grip such essences ... that may resemble water and as an icon of consuming thought ... I'll drink to that! The evaporative trends in hot spots desiccate me ... thus the dray side of god's humus ...

Something more to be turned over in the quest ...

Exceptions may include folks who are dismissed by those believing they are stable under the Dunning-Kruger Syndrom ... if you think you're sane you are not and if you think your crazy ... you may be wrong ... the outcome remains quanta ... that's chancy! We must be patient for the resolution as it extends considerably ... a grand abstract stretch?

If one conspires about a well to get into this would one come out the other side totally turned about? That's spiritual reciprocation ... some say psyche reversal! These thoughts can come back at you as moving points if you believe them to be stable! Naught ... Nah ... it doesn't work for those still searching for virtue in a world that believes it just lies there under the tree ... fallacy of thought (loci')?

In Greek the "c'" was non existent allowing great light to proceed in the "g" of night ... that's the spot ... it appeared on Plato's wall too!

Go figure with four points of the compass if one joins them with a dash or line ... a delta or "Y" may appear as lambda "λ" upending may fixed observations ... you can observe this if backing off into space as a sense of quintessence (as if when an individual knows they don't know ... you are cognizant of getting somewhere). How is vastly misunderstood ... just to teach a lesson about pure love ... when one has lost all sense in a powerful application of passion.

A judge recently shot down the trumping of democracy on this head (pointy with essence of executive privilege's)? Thus busts appear as booty ... an udder realization that there are other explosive pyrotechnics in space ... just wait! Be patient ... like that English soldier ... hold back ... don't tell the overly esteemed anything ... they do not believe they need a network ... white or black!

It may come to you in bits like Patch Adams ... something for song tag ... Patches ... "oh what can you see ... it may not be right but I'll see you ..." and so on ...

Consider it a broad view ... not narrow minded! Enables one to see the curves ... way out one may enjoy that monk's log about searching old manuscripts about Pope Borgio's daughter who became know as Lu Crease ... a wrinkle in the game of keeping it in the family? Complexity brews ...
 
Last edited:
Redbaron ----I was answering a Post directed at me by GordW ----post 270 page 14 ----

this is the post from him -----


OK, then in your own words (no quoting some other source) what do YOU believe the writer of 2 Timothy was referring to when they wrote that all "SCripture" is God-Breathed/given by the inspiration of God/inspired by GOd (depending on the translation one uses for that verse).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And this is me answering GordW's post to me personally

This is 2 Timothy 3 verses 10-17--ERV -------Paul is speaking to Timothy and He says

10 But you know all about me. You know what I teach and the way I live. You know my goal in life. You know my faith, my patience, and my love. You know that I never stop trying. 11 You know about my persecutions and my sufferings. You know all the things that happened to me in Antioch, Iconium, and Lystra—the persecution I suffered in those places. But the Lord saved me from all of it.

12 Everyone who wants to live showing true devotion to God in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.

13 People who are evil and cheat others will become worse and worse. They will fool others, but they will also be fooling themselves.

14 But you should continue following the teaching you learned. You know it is true, because you know you can trust those who taught you.

15 You have known the Holy Scriptures[b] since you were a child. These Scriptures are able to make you wise. And that wisdom leads to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

16 All Scripture is given by God. And all Scripture is useful for teaching and for showing people what is wrong in their lives. It is useful for correcting faults and teaching the right way to live.

17 Using the Scriptures, those who serve God will be prepared and will have everything they need to do every good work.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My words here verse 14 ---------He is telling Timothy to continue following what he has learned from Paul -----

MY Words here --Verse 15 ---------is saying that in his childhood the Hebrew Scriptures were passed on to him and says that the Holy Scriptures are able to make you wise ----which says to me that the Rhema words that were spoken to Timothy from childhood from the Holy Scriptures could make him wise ----just words can'r make a person wise --which say to me that they were God Inspired ----and that wisdom is what Leads to Salvation through Faith in Jesus Christ ----in the New Testament ----

My words here ----verse 16 ----All Scripture is given by God ---this says here --same as God inspired --God breathed ---etc --all means the same ===and it says ALL --if it was referring to the Hebrews Scriptures only in would say -- THOSE Scriptures are God inspired ----in verse 15 --it says THESE Scriptures which is referring to the Hebrew Scriptures -----

My words verse 17 ------it says ----using THE scriptures ----those who serve God will be prepared for all they need to do good works -----the Scriptures indicated all scriptures -----that are God breathed ----

The Greek word for ALL in this scripture is

Strong's Concordance
pas: all, every
Original Word: πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pas
Phonetic Spelling: (pas)
Definition: all, every
Usage: all, the whole, every kind of.

HELPS Word-studies
3956 páseach, every; each "part(s) of a totality" (L & N, 1, 59.24).

3956 /pás ("each, every") means "all" in the sense of "each (every) part that applies." The emphasis of the total picture then is on "one piece at a time." 365 (ananeóō) then focuses on the part(s) making up the whole – viewing the whole in terms of the individual parts.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I say ------So if you want to believe otherwise GordW ---that is up to you -----But By the Rhema word a person is Saved ------words alone won't save you -----they have to be God inspired

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So don't be sending purple messages to me about answering a post -----I am allowed to answer a person and if you remember many time you have accused me of not answering your post -----and 2 people have told you I did actually answer your question directed at me when you kept on about me not answering your question ------Mendalla and revjohn both to you I did actually answer your question -----

So if you want to sent purple messages you had better make sure your conversations are on point and clean from all code of conduct laws set up here ---cause your a Monitor and you need to set a good example for the code of conduct --if you don't then your are being a Hypocrite -----by chastising other for doing what you do yourself ----Just saying --fair is fair
The point remains that, after several people had tried to return the thread to its original topic of discussion, you tried to derail it with your own agenda. You twice tried to ask people to prove a negation, when the burden of proof was on YOUR shoulders. (You had this pointed out to you at least twice.) I have suggested that if this line of thought is so important to you, you should start your own thread on the topic, and quit trying to derail this thread. Now, is that clear?
 
Redbarron ----you said -----you tried to derail it with your own agenda.

That is a bold face lie -----I never tried to derail this thread ---at all ---your just using this justify your purple note -I was giving my view like everyone else on here ----you just hate the fact that I view things different than you and can't stand it ---so your using your puffed up authority to chastise Christians who think different that you do -----your the one that uses your own agenda to justify your wanting to get rid of more Bible Christians so you don't have to read what they say ------and like I said you are not exempt from adhearing to the code of conduct -----so better make sure your on the straight and narrow and if you fall off the wagon make sure you send yourself a purple notice -----just saying ---
 
Back
Top