Christianity and other religions

[Luce NDs]

And always remember that light does sink into the darkness ... resulting in images arising when the lights go out down here ...

It is sort of similar to a bridge to nowhere and thus a lot of nothing going on as the entire thing spins on axes ... an edge concern?

Filed to a point it could develop into a dark Rae ... a thing described within the fibers of a tree ... and providing a medium for experiences to be carved ... as an old goat in the forest expounding on egotism ... another poorly defined topic (as compared to egoism)! Poorly differentiated to be sure ...

I do believe we need some new myths for the relaxation of those overly stimulated by the fortunes of military industrial dominance ... alternate fortunes in peace? We could even ease off on the driven forces ...

 

[Mystic]

For example, our predominently evangelical network of churches have a generous love fund to meet the practical needs of the poor and the homeless. QW=Ww work in tandem with Rural Resources, a government agency. Also, we (5 churches) offer a free lunch 5 days a week. When I was pastor, we had a monthly potluck dinner and movie night during which the poor enjoyed a truly lavish dinner. But there is a problem: we do so much for the homeless that our town is attracting many homeless people from other cities and this is creating a local political backlash.

In my experience, liberal churches stress social justice issues at the expense of preaching the Gospel. To them, Jesus is little more than a mascot
that serves as a focal point for their merely social message.

 

[unsafe]

,BetteTheRed ----you said -----when you "declare", based on such and such a verse, that ALL scripture (your canon, of your religion, in your language and preferred translations) is God-breathed, you are sharing your opinion, not the trade-marked "Truth"

. Your complete lack of comprehension about the art of translation/paraphrase and the different "truths" that can be teased out of every passage is disappointing.


Bette The Red --you are talking nonsense -----and I am not surprised ---and this you quote to me here -------
. Your complete lack of comprehension about the art of translation/paraphrase and the different "truths" that can be teased out of every passage is disappointing.

is coming right back at you ----because any one who would call what Jesus went through Torture Porn --- has such a completely lack of comprehension about the art of Translation/paraphrase and the Real Truth of what the scripture is saying ------

If you want to argue with God about if His word is truth ---you go a head and do that ------all Scripture is the inspired word of God and it is Truth ----that is what the scripture says --

So Now-------- You Prove To Me ----that the scripture is not God inspired and not truth as it says it is ------ I will wait to hear your Proof that God didn't inspire the words of All Scripture and they are in fact not true --

If you and others want to disbelieve this you go right ahead -----but this is what the Greek word for God Inspired is and what it means -----

God in Greek is Theos ----
theós (of unknown origin) – properly, God, the Creator and owner of all things (Jn 1:3; Gen 1 - 3).
Notice ----Theo in this word below -----

Strong's Concordance
theopneustos: God-breathed, i.e. inspired by God
Original Word: θεόπνευστος, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: theopneustos
Phonetic Spelling: (theh-op'-nyoo-stos)
Definition: God-breathed, inspired by God
Usage: God-breathed, inspired by God, due to the inspiration of God.
HELPS Word-studies
2315 theópneustos (from 2316 /theós, "God" and 4154 /pnéō, "breathe out") – properly, God-breathed, referring to the divine inspiration (inbreathing) of Scripture (used only in 2 Tim 3:16).

2315 /theópneustos ("God-breathed"), likely a term coined by Paul, "expresses the sacred nature of the Scriptures (their divine origin) and their power to sanctify believers" (C. Spicq, 2, 193).

[Inbreathing (2315 /theópneustos) relates directly to God's Spirit (Gk pneuma) which can also be translated "breath."]

2 Tim 3:16: "Each-and-every (3956 /pás, singular) Scripture (Gk, singular) is God-breathed (2315 /theópneustos) and profitable for teaching, for convincing, for correction, for training in righteousness."

The singular (anarthrous) use of 3956 /pás ("all") underlines that each part of speech (every inflected word-form, "reflex") used in the Bible is God-breathed, i.e. inscripturated (written) under divine inspiration.

[G. Archer, "2315 (theópneustos) is better rendered 'breathed out by God' as the emphasis is upon the divine origin of the inscripturated revelation itself" (A Survey of OT Introduction, fn. 7, 29).]
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Now BetteThe Red -----Prove the Greek word wrong --I will be waiting for your reply ----

 

[GordW]

@unsafe you are, as usual, missing the point completely. WHen the writer of Timothy speaks of Scripture being "God-breathed" the writer is not talking about a recognized list of Christian, follower of Jesus, writings. They are either talking about a recognized list of Jewish Scriptures, or some list of things that the writer/the community of which the writer is a part considers Scripture. It is impossible for the writer to be referring to that collection of 66 books that make up the Bible (well 66 in traditions that do not include the Apocrypha) for the simple fact that said collection did not exist.

WHat we understnad Scripture to be, what we understand when we say that God inspired those who wrote the words and inspires those who read the, can mean a variety of things.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Correct. I mean you can argue that Paul calls the Hebrew Scriptures god-breathed, but you can't argue that anyone says that the New Testament is god-breathed, because that collection of books DID NOT EXIST when Paul was talking about Scripture.

And since I know that you don't take the Hebrew Scriptures literally (you don't follow kosher, you don't adhere to the 613 Jewish Laws), I'm not really sure where you're going with this argument.

And you can stop going on about the torture horror comment. I wasn't the person that coined that term, nor am I the only one that refers, specifically, to Mel Gibson's movie in exactly those terms.

I understand the main points of the seven or so theories of atonement perfectly well, thank you. If you look up "theories of atonement", you'll get a description of each one. I personally subscribe to the "moral influence" theory. I get that you think you have all the right answers, but you only have the right answers for you. The thing about free will is that I get to think for myself and decide exactly how I believe in Christianity. I'm not alone in my positions.

 

[GordW]

Correct. I mean you can argue that Paul calls the Hebrew Scriptures god-breathed, but you can't argue that anyone says that the New Testament is god-breathed, because that collection of books DID NOT EXIST when Paul was talking about Scripture.

ALthough many scholars doubt Paul actually worte the Pastoral Epistles (which is why I carefully said "the writer of Timothy").

 

[unsafe]

BetteTheRed ----Provide the proof you spout out ----

you said ----Correct. I mean you can argue that Paul calls the Hebrew Scriptures god-breathed, but you can't argue that anyone says that the New Testament is god-breathed, because that collection of books DID NOT EXIST when Paul was talking about Scripture.

I say ___I am not arguing about it you are ---I believe the words are all God Breathed as the scripture says they are -----so now prove your point ---show me the evidence you have to refute that the all Scripture is NOT God Breathed ----

I am waiting -----oh and I will not stop about your comment about what Jesus went through --you call yourself a Christian and you make such a comment -----that is laughable in my view

 

[Redbaron]

So you think the Bible is God-breathed, because the Bible says the Bible is God-breathed?

Do you understand the concept of circular logic?

I say ___I am not arguing about it you are ---I believe the words are all God Breathed as the scripture says they are -----so now prove your point ---show me the evidence you have to refute that the all Scripture is NOT God Breathed ----

It's not really incumbent on anybody to show evidence that something ISN'T the case. It is more your onus to show something IS the case. And circular logic doesn't do it.

 

[unsafe]

GordW --you said -----you are, as usual, missing the point completely. WHen the writer of Timothy speaks of Scripture being "God-breathed" the writer is not talking about a recognized list of Christian, follower of Jesus, writings.

I say ---with all due respect -----show me where I said anything about a recognised list of Christian Followers of Jesus writings ----I think your missing the point ---the Scriptures are God inspired and they are alive ---and active ---you people are speaking of the Logos the written word ----I speak of the Rhema word --The Word inbirths God's Faith in us ---the word is inspired by God to do that -----God's word is seed ----it is God inspired seed to produce -----what is says it will produce -----words by themselves can't produce ---Faith words produce ---God Spoke and Created ----His words are alive and active cause they are God inspired --all scripture is God inspired ----Plant God's seed in your GOOD SOIL and it will produce ---

Read for yourselves ----I just posted this part

Page not found - Bible Study Note

www.biblestudynote.com

scriptures that give us guidelines concerning our use of the rhema

Romans 10: 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word <rhema> of God.

Faith for something comes from the word God has revealed/quickened to you personally. That’s why 2 people may hear the same sermon and 1 comes away with faith and the other doesn’t.

Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word <rhema> of God

The sword we use in spiritual warfare is a specific word given for that situation and not just general warfare scriptures. Thus, in a time of personal battle, we need to approach God for a revelation of his <rhema> for that time. My pastor shares a story of a women with a leg disease that required amputation. General healing scriptures are popular and common but when this woman prayed on the matter God quickened Psalm 121:3a He will not suffer thy foot to be moved to her. That scripture is not categorized as a healing scripture, but the woman secured her healing with that scripture

Rhema <rhema>​

Mark 14:72 A second time the rooster crowed. Then Peter called to mind the word <rhema> that Jesus had said to him, “Before the rooster crows twice, you will deny Me three times.” And when he thought about it, he wept.

Luke 3:2 while Annas and Caiaphas were high priests, the word <rhema> of God came to John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness

John 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words <rhema> that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

Acts 11:14 who will tell you words <rhema> by which you and all your household will be saved.

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words <rhema> that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

From the above examples, we can see a distinction: Logos is a word (spoken/written) given generally while Rhema <rhema> is a word (spoken/written) given specifically.


Rhema ---From Google ----

When God gives a word of knowledge, word of wisdom or a prophetic Word on healing, it becomes the Rhema that is filled with Spirit and life. The Rhema Word has within it, the spiritual seed that releases faith, life and power.

I say ----God inspired Word Seed --gives Faith Life and power that produces -----

 

[GordW]

I say ---with all due respect -----show me where I said anything about a recognised list of Christian Followers of Jesus writings ----I think your missing the point ---the Scriptures are God inspired and they are alive ---and active

OK, then in your own words (no quoting some other source) what do YOU believe the writer of 2 Timothy was referring to when they wrote that all "SCripture" is God-Breathed/given by the inspiration of God/inspired by GOd (depending on the translation one uses for that verse).

 

[Mrs.Anteater]

Oh, people, you are trying with logic where no logic exist. A god who can breath his will into scripture can breath it into scripture ta say it about scripture that isn’t even written yet. Time travel is no problem for a god.
What seems to be as well is that god has breathed into some of unsafes other sources some concordances and dictionaries.

 

[Redbaron]

Well, for that matter, why couldn't the Divine Mystery have inspired the Upanishads, and the Zoroastrian writings? Or, for that matter the I Ching and Buddhist writings? Or the Koran? Why limit divine inspiration to just one small set of writings, when there are so many other wonderful inspiring worthy collections to be learned from? I mean, this IS a thread about other religions, too! Seems to me to restrict yourself arbitrarily on only one set of writings is to go through life with willful blinders on.

 

[GordW]

Well, for that matter, why couldn't the Divine Mystery have inspired the Upanishads, and the Zoroastrian writings? Or, for that matter the I Ching and Buddhist writings? Or the Koran? Why limit divine inspiration to just one small set of writings, when there are so many other wonderful inspiring worthy collections to be learned from? I mean, this IS a thread about other religions, too! Seems to me to restrict yourself arbitrarily on only one set of writings is to go through life with willful blinders on.

Or for that matter the text associated with Jewish Kabbalism. Or Christian texts from a variety of perspectives Or collected wisdom from various Indigenous peoples (most of which were oral cultures to begin with to may not be written texts, or what writtten texts there are are complied oral sayings [sort of like portions of Jewish and Christian writings in that regard])

 

[GordW]

Or for that matter the text associated with Jewish Kabbalism. Or Christian texts from a variety of perspectives Or collected wisdom from various Indigenous peoples (most of which were oral cultures to begin with to may not be written texts, or what writtten texts there are are complied oral sayings [sort of like portions of Jewish and Christian writings in that regard])

WHich raises a question very germane to the thread topic (in my mind).

How do we know if God/the Divine/THe SOurce is speaking through a text or tradition or not?

 

[BetteTheRed]

Well, for that matter, why couldn't the Divine Mystery have inspired the Upanishads, and the Zoroastrian writings? Or, for that matter the I Ching and Buddhist writings? Or the Koran? Why limit divine inspiration to just one small set of writings, when there are so many other wonderful inspiring worthy collections to be learned from? I mean, this IS a thread about other religions, too! Seems to me to restrict yourself arbitrarily on only one set of writings is to go through life with willful blinders on.

And there's the entire question of the canon of Christianity. Not only is it different amongst denominations, but various worthies over the years have proposed that different books be given the boot (Luther had no fondness for The Revelation).

I like the gospel of Thomas. It reads more like Buddhist koans in some areas.

 

[BetteTheRed]

@unsafe, I'd actually like to thank you for reinforcing the point of the first post. It is your "my way or the highway; I'm right and everyone else is wrong" attitude that actively turns people off Christianity.

 

[unsafe]

This is 2 Timothy 3 verses 10-17--ERV -------Paul is speaking to Timothy and He says

10 But you know all about me. You know what I teach and the way I live. You know my goal in life. You know my faith, my patience, and my love. You know that I never stop trying. 11 You know about my persecutions and my sufferings. You know all the things that happened to me in Antioch, Iconium, and Lystra—the persecution I suffered in those places. But the Lord saved me from all of it.

12 Everyone who wants to live showing true devotion to God in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.

13 People who are evil and cheat others will become worse and worse. They will fool others, but they will also be fooling themselves.

14 But you should continue following the teaching you learned. You know it is true, because you know you can trust those who taught you.

15 You have known the Holy Scriptures[b] since you were a child. These Scriptures are able to make you wise. And that wisdom leads to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

16 All Scripture is given by God. And all Scripture is useful for teaching and for showing people what is wrong in their lives. It is useful for correcting faults and teaching the right way to live.

17 Using the Scriptures, those who serve God will be prepared and will have everything they need to do every good work.
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My words here verse 14 ---------He is telling Timothy to continue following what he has learned from Paul -----

MY Words here --Verse 15 ---------is saying that in his childhood the Hebrew Scriptures were passed on to him and says that the Holy Scriptures are able to make you wise ----which says to me that the Rhema words that were spoken to Timothy from childhood from the Holy Scriptures could make him wise ----just words can'r make a person wise --which say to me that they were God Inspired ----and that wisdom is what Leads to Salvation through Faith in Jesus Christ ----in the New Testament ----

My words here ----verse 16 ----All Scripture is given by God ---this says here --same as God inspired --God breathed ---etc --all means the same ===and it says ALL --if it was referring to the Hebrews Scriptures only in would say -- THOSE Scriptures are God inspired ----in verse 15 --it says THESE Scriptures which is referring to the Hebrew Scriptures -----

My words verse 17 ------it says ----using THE scriptures ----those who serve God will be prepared for all they need to do good works -----the Scriptures indicated all scriptures -----that are God breathed ----

The Greek word for ALL in this scripture is

Strong's Concordance
pas: all, every
Original Word: πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pas
Phonetic Spelling: (pas)
Definition: all, every
Usage: all, the whole, every kind of.

HELPS Word-studies
3956 pás – each, every; each "part(s) of a totality" (L & N, 1, 59.24).

3956 /pás ("each, every") means "all" in the sense of "each (every) part that applies." The emphasis of the total picture then is on "one piece at a time." 365 (ananeóō) then focuses on the part(s) making up the whole – viewing the whole in terms of the individual parts.
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I say ------So if you want to believe otherwise GordW ---that is up to you -----But By the Rhema word a person is Saved ------words alone won't save you -----they have to be God inspired

 

[Redbaron]

You're still stuck in the vicious cycle of circular logic.

And you're still assuming that Paul actually wrote this letter. As has been pointed out to you in this thread, and in a few others, it is extremely doubtful that Paul wrote the letters to Timothy. If you had a good study Bible, like the Oxford Annotated Bible to refer to, you could fine out why that doubtfulness exists.

 

[unsafe]

BetteTheRed ---you said ----- I'd actually like to thank you for reinforcing the point of the first post. It is your "my way or the highway; I'm right and everyone else is wrong" attitude that actively turns people off Christianity.

I say -----No it's God's way or the Highway -----you just don't like the truth of God's word ----so again your playing the blame Game ----won't take responsibility for your own choice of your unbelief of scripture ---or wanting to deflate your ego to even honour God ---yet you expect God be there at your beck and call ---

 

[BetteTheRed]

But again, you do reinforce the first post. Not only "heretics" within Christianity, like me, but also, all indigenous spiritualities, all Islam, all Buddhism, all Confucianism, all Hinduism, all Judaism, etc., etc., are all condemned to hell according to your theology. It was "your" theology that made residential schools possible.