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paradox3 said:
I declined to see it myself.
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I did too, except that my old guy pointed out that it was hypocritical for me to pronounce on the movie without having seen it. That said, he volunteered to be the Bette-sensor and send me off to the den if it ranged outside known Bette-sensibilities. I saw little of the movie.

And I did not grow up in liberal Christianity. My mother was a lapsed Catholic. My grandmother, then my uncle, came to visit every second year my entire life, for a month, and I went to mass with them. I spent the years from 4-15 in an evangelical Lutheran congregation. My second ambition was to be a nun (my first was to be a pirate, so there is that...)
 
Imagine privateering planking ... a constant chaos?

Many vessels held together by wooden plugs ... working vessels all trenailed ... this carried over into bairne raising ... and the child was plugged with ... awful stuff ... as Kaliyah noted ... poor old chap! The young bloomer was bought off ...
 
The very first stories and fairy tales and histories that captivated me were of Viking pirates, hence BetteTheRed, after EricTheRed...
 
I have quite a low tolerance for gore in movies. Can't handle certain passages in books either
 
BetteTheRed said:
The very first stories and fairy tales and histories that captivated me were of Viking pirates, hence BetteTheRed, after EricTheRed...
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Eric the awful captured my families attention about the riding over hills and dales ... I do believe it was Raest Evens ... and the darkness fell!
 
paradox3 said:
I never felt the need to pronounce on the movie. Was content to say that the whole matter made me most uncomfortable.
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Unfortunately, being a long term member of a couple of liberal faith sub-groups, and often a group leader of same, "pronouncing" is one of those habits I've been over-prone to. You should have seen me gender-neutralizing the scripture passage for last Sunday, which I was reading, carefully blending the cadence of The Message with the "fixes" of the Inclusive Bible, but faintly further repaired in favour of the traditional Shema. Yes, I'm nuts.

I have no interest in gore. I've had periods of my life, younger, when I didn't mind a bit of more psychological horror, especially in novels, where I can just walk away from it and pick up something else. (But I'm probably talking about the madness of Heathcliff and Cathy, and Bertha, the mad wife of Rochester - I am more a classical reader than otherwise, historically, anyway.)
 
BetteTheRed said:
Unfortunately, being a long term member of a couple of liberal faith sub-groups, and often a group leader of same, "pronouncing" is one of those habits I've been over-prone to. You should have seen me gender-neutralizing the scripture passage for last Sunday, which I was reading, carefully blending the cadence of The Message with the "fixes" of the Inclusive Bible, but faintly further repaired in favour of the traditional Shema. Yes, I'm nuts.

I have no interest in gore. I've had periods of my life, younger, when I didn't mind a bit of more psychological horror, especially in novels, where I can just walk away from it and pick up something else. (But I'm probably talking about the madness of Heathcliff and Cathy, and Bertha, the mad wife of Rochester - I am more a classical reader than otherwise, historically, anyway.)
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Tis said to be bloody awful ... and thus Jesus provided the other myths of fetching and fishing ... that far shore ...
 
Those who reject atonement theology reject Jesus' understanding of His mission:
"For the Son of Man came to give His life a ransom for many (Mark 10:45)."
 
paradox3 -----you said ----Re: Mel Gibson's movie. I think that many of us who were raised in liberal Christianity grew up naive to the extreme torment Jesus would have suffered

I say ------you are so right about your statement here ----all the years of my growing up and attending church ----the truth of what Jesus really suffered was never talked about ---all that was said was He was nailed to a cross ------Sermons were always on the soft side of scripture----- the Love of God ===not the Judgement of God or the real true Suffering Jesus endured so we could be reunited back to God -----no one ever preached on the hard scriptures----and it is still going on today -------People hate to hear the hard parts of the scripture cause they don't understand them and that includes many Ministers who are standing in the pulpits --

People hate to hear ----Jesus brought division ---not peace --that He was sent to reveal His Father ----not to boost socialism ---He was sent to do away with sin -by shedding His Blood --He was sent to destroy the works of the devil --He was sent to provide an example of a Holy Life -----

I think the the higher archery back then and now are scared to preach and let known the real truth about of what Jesus suffered out of fear of loosing people and having their money drop in the collection plates---Preaching the softness of scripture keeps people in church --------Preaching truth is not acceptable ---cause people can't handle ---

Mel Gibson"s movie is a perfect example of that ----He portrayed the best he could some truth about His Flogging ---believe me it was much worse than he showed in this movie ----- and he was criticised for what he did show ---I went to see it in the theatre and I sobbed thinking what a show of Great Love God has for us to be willing to endure such suffering so we can be free from sin and death --I was just in Awe and So humbled and Greatfull ------ many people left the theatre ---

The truth is Jesus was unrecognisable as a person due to the suffering He endured for us ---Isaiah 52:14-----and we continue to down play the real truth of scripture by always preaching the lovey-dovey parts and ignore the hard parts ----so I say good for Gibson having the courage to take on the truth of what Jesus endured ---

I say Preach Truth --even if it empties the Church -----:angel:
 
@unsafe

I am Liking your post because it presents a good, clear argument for your point of view. I don't completely agree with you but I don't completely disagree either.

Shalom P3
 
unsafe said:
paradox3 -----you said ----Re: Mel Gibson's movie. I think that many of us who were raised in liberal Christianity grew up naive to the extreme torment Jesus would have suffered

I say ------you are so right about your statement here ----all the years of my growing up and attending church ----the truth of what Jesus really suffered was never talked about ---all that was said was He was nailed to a cross ------Sermons were always on the soft side of scripture----- the Love of God ===not the Judgement of God or the real true Suffering Jesus endured so we could be reunited back to God -----no one ever preached on the hard scriptures----and it is still going on today -------People hate to hear the hard parts of the scripture cause they don't understand them and that includes many Ministers who are standing in the pulpits --

People hate to hear ----Jesus brought division ---not peace --that He was sent to reveal His Father ----not to boost socialism ---He was sent to do away with sin -by shedding His Blood --He was sent to destroy the works of the devil --He was sent to provide an example of a Holy Life -----

I think the the higher archery back then and now are scared to preach and let known the real truth about of what Jesus suffered out of fear of loosing people and having their money drop in the collection plates---Preaching the softness of scripture keeps people in church --------Preaching truth is not acceptable ---cause people can't handle ---

Mel Gibson"s movie is a perfect example of that ----He portrayed the best he could some truth about His Flogging ---believe me it was much worse than he showed in this movie ----- and he was criticised for what he did show ---I went to see it in the theatre and I sobbed thinking what a show of Great Love God has for us to be willing to endure such suffering so we can be free from sin and death --I was just in Awe and So humbled and Greatfull ------ many people left the theatre ---

The truth is Jesus was unrecognisable as a person due to the suffering He endured for us ---Isaiah 52:14-----and we continue to down play the real truth of scripture by always preaching the lovey-dovey parts and ignore the hard parts ----so I say good for Gibson having the courage to take on the truth of what Jesus endured ---

I say Preach Truth --even if it empties the Church -----:angel:
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I appreciate that these are your views expressed clearly and not quotes from scriptures or elsewhere. I do not agree with some of what you are saying, but thank you for using your own words.
 
OK, but I'll propose an alternative view of how you get to there from here. I grew up the daughter of a Catholic woman and from age 4 until 15, attended an evangelical Lutheran church.

I knew all about guilt and sin and painful death. I left all religion for about 20 years because it appeared so morally and logically wrong.
 
BetteTheRed-----you said ----I knew all about guilt and sin and painful death. I left all religion for about 20 years because it appeared so morally and logically wrong.

I say ---you might have listened to a Minister who didn't know God himself and believe me there are many out there like that ---and was wrongly dividing the word of God and preached with wrong motives which is to scare people -----this was the way it was in many Churches in the past and still is today especially in certain Religious Denominations -----using fear to get people to submit -----which is so wrong -----but it is also so wrong to just preach the nice and lovey dovey parts of Scripture that people like and ignore the real truth of what the Scripture really is saying as to why Jesus was sent to dwell on this earth -----

If the Minister is a Minister of God and is directed and called by God to be a Preacher and is directed by the Holy Spirit in their preaching ---the Word will be rightly divided and their motive will be directed by God which is to gently and with Love and compassion preach and teach the truth of the Word to open the heart of the people so they hear and be doers of the Word not run from the Church ----

People sitting in the pews of the Church are trusting and relying on their Minister to not just preach the Word but to share the understanding of the Word being Preached ----the hard parts of Scripture needs great understanding by the Minister themselves First before it is Preached ----the people listening can only gain the knowledge they are fed by their Minister --

The Disciples were made to wait for the Holy Spirit to come upon them before they went out into the world to Preach God's word ----and it should be no different today ----without Christ in you --your knowledge of of what the Scripture is really saying is limited to your own reasoning and that is what the Minister will be feeding his people in the pews ----some will use the fear tactic of fire and brimstone ----some will ignore that section all together --some will just preach on the humble Jesus who looked after the sick and poor and ignore the real reason Jesus came ----the people will be fed what their Minister wants them to know not what God intends the people to know --Just saying --
 
unsafe said:
If the Minister is a Minister of God and is directed and called by God to be a Preacher and is directed by the Holy Spirit in their preaching ---the Word will be rightly divided and their motive will be directed by God which is to gently and with Love and compassion preach and teach the truth of the Word to open the heart of the people so they hear and be doers of the Word not run from the Church ----
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What I'm reading between the lines here is, 'If I agree with what a Minister preaches, then all is well. If, however, that Minister preaches anything that I disagree with, curses, foiled again.' Did it ever occur to you that mayhap it is your own opinions and thoughts that might need revising and renewing? You sound like the crowd in Isaiah, ch. 30, 'Speak to us smooth things, prophesy illusions.' IOW 'Don't upset my apple cart.'
 
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