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Yes @unsafe we have discussed my faith perspective in the past and I am well aware you consider me lukewarm.

C'est la vie.
 
unsafe said:
all the while mocking the very heart of Christianity
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It's the heart of the Christianity that YOU espouse. As P3 has pointed out, Christianity, like EVERY OTHER RELIGION, has a belief spectrum. I'd say that your beliefs tend towards the right pretty extremely, and I admit that mine tend pretty hard left. Just as in politics, there's no inherently "correct" position. There might be more logical ones than others. Unlike you, I don't think I have all the answers, I just know that the ones you propose (that I grew up with) make no sense to me, morally, spiritually or logically. I know that you've got this fantasy of yourself as the True Christian among Heathens, but I'd invite you to imagine where that takes you, from a relationship POV (hint: the way that western culture imposed itself on indigenous peoples).

You see, it's not unkind to point out the flaws in someone else's belief system (although it might not be "nice", which is a different thing altogether). And if one's belief system causes one to have a belief in a vision of Godde that appears subjectively actively malevolent/evil, and one chooses to hang out in an area excessively/exclusively populated by people with belief systems fairly to very different from yours, then I think you have to expect some constructive criticism. And "torture porn" is not critical, but rather descriptive. Think about it. A "father" who expects his only child to be voluntarily tortured then suffer a terrible death and then expects kudos and worship for such an act? A bunch of believers who will let a charlatan like Mel Gibson make a graphic horror movie, then eagerly watch it as a religious experience? If that's not "torture porn", I don't know what is.
 
What is kindness? A popular song a couple or more decades ago was You have to be Cruel to be Kind in just the right measure. That song has challenged me ever since I heard it. First, where was truth in the song if it was in the song? What counts as cruel? I believe the song referred to ending relationships, but it applies in other situations.

On this site, I believe the cruel part might include fair and honest assessment or evaluation of comments that are made or links that are offered. The kind part could include respect with replies that are clearly to what has been shared along with expressions of support or comfort for members experiencing difficult or painful circumstances.

For example, at the time of Jesus, people had to be fully committed or they were a risk to the rest of the community. Today communities of faith do not face the malicious dangers of that time in Canada. At the same time, their beliefs could vary then as they do now. I am not sure if spectrum is helpful as our faith and or beliefs are more three dimensional with one dimension referring to the spread between a deity and atheism, one dimension being firmness of belief and the third being commitment expressed in words and actions. Maybe a fourth dimension for kind of belief but I am not sure that is an adequate term.

When paradox 3 describes self as middle of the road, that is in terms of belief. Participating on this site shows a greater than average commitment to developing and refining beliefs.
 
BetteTheRed ------you said ----and "torture porn" is not critical, but rather descriptive----

I say --you can try and down play your comment about what Jesus went through for your sake all you want to ---but it won't fly ----by using torture porn---you are infact belittling and degrading the abuse that Jesus willingly suffered for your sake ---taking what you deserve upon Himself so you would not have to endure what He did when you die -----

I say ----And you have the gall to use such a word as -------porn ----and associate it with what Jesus went through -----and then call yourself a follower of Jesus by calling yourself a Christian ----well for me that takes the cake -----

Porn meaning​

pôrn

Porn is short for pornography, which is video or print material that is intended to be viewed for sexual gratification.
 
Interesting- kindness and religion/ beliefs. Makes me think of the Dalai Lama and Desmond Tutu.
Occasionally on WC kindness is expressed by an unusual patience with certain people.
Other than that, I see kindness as a personal trait, and belief systems are often more of a hinderance than helpful in developing it.
 
The Torture Horror Genre

In the article he explains that he's talking about a genre otherwise known as torture porn, and why he doesn't use that term because it might be offensive to those who might object to the term being applied to a movie about Jesus. I can use the words "torture horror" instead, if you'd rather.

Why would I be morally okay with the idea of a good person being sacrificed by his own father, for the sake of my "missings of the mark"? I mean, morally, I am culpable for my own sins, and I find the idea of adoring or worshipping said "father" abhorrent.
 
As I recall, Gibson's film WAS wildly popular among some evangelicals... I suspect now I know why.
 
unsafe said:
paradox3 ---you said ----I always think there is more balance at the middle of the spectrum. But as one who identifies as a middle of the road type, maybe I am completely wrong about this.

I say ---one could ask who's spectrum your speaking of ------

If you look at Jesus and the Pharisees ----there was no balance ---Jesus didn't say I came to strike a balance with God's chosen so we could walk in the middle of the road -----He said He didn't come to bring peace He came to bring a 2 edged sword --to divide households ----so where is the middle road there ----

Jesus said your either for me or against me ---no middle road there ------

I say -----Maybe your speaking of the Religious theological spectrum ----but God has no Religion ----Jesus was a Jew but He Never once said -----Follow my Religion of Judaism or any other Religion ------Jesus followed His Father's Will ----not any Religion

Jesus was a straight shooter ----and was blunt and to the point and took no guff from the The Pharisees nor did He allow any middle ground to be walked from His teachings -----you either had your heart open to His message or it was closed and unable to grasp the message ---

I say --what your middle ground says is this ------you are Lukewarm ---you are neither for God or against God -----Jesus gives grave warnings for anyone who remains Lukewarm -----Jesus speaks to the church of Laodicea in Revelations 3 verse and says this below

You can Read Revelations 3 for yourself ----I am just posting this verse about lukewarmness

Revelations 3:verse 16
Berean Study Bible
So because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to vomit you out of My mouth!

i say ------So what does this word vomit mean in the Greek in this scripture -----you won't like it ----

HELPS Word-studies
1692 eméō – properly, vomit (MM); (figuratively) repulsed, showing utter rejection (desiring total separation);"to reject with extreme disgust"


I say --------And here we see the Greek meaning for lukewarmness used as a Metaphor ----

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 5513: χιλιαρος

to become warm, liquefy, melt), tepid, lukewarm: metaphorically, of the condition of a soul wretchedly fluctuating between a torpor and a fervor of love,

I say ---so while all Religions may have middle Ground that can be reached ----Middle Ground with God which is lukewarmness is not acceptable -so it seems ----just saying
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Yee Gods demand loyalty ... look what the past president did ... and all that without a clue of Kohl concerns about getting overheated ... a spinoff of the Constantine Affair! He saw a light and didn't reason about how getting too near could cause many ignition in the inquisition! Perhaps a misleading light ... on a dawn to earth perspective!
 
Redbaron said:
As I recall, Gibson's film WAS wildly popular among some evangelicals... I suspect now I know why.
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One must read into such things with great depth to allow errs of facetiae ... they do sprout if there is po' understanding ... understood?

Oh crap I forgot within the diameter of faith understanding is dis mist ... somewhat foggy to the leigh word ... an exclamation following!
 
paradox3 said:
It was indeed popular among evangelicals and others. I declined to see it myself.
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I had evangelical relatives that found it excruciating ... and yet continue with the concept of winning power! They don't really consider Hoo's pained ...
 
unsafe said:
BetteTheRed ------you said ----and "torture porn" is not critical, but rather descriptive----

I say --you can try and down play your comment about what Jesus went through for your sake all you want to ---but it won't fly ----by using torture porn---you are infact belittling and degrading the abuse that Jesus willingly suffered for your sake ---taking what you deserve upon Himself so you would not have to endure what He did when you die -----

I say ----And you have the gall to use such a word as -------porn ----and associate it with what Jesus went through -----and then call yourself a follower of Jesus by calling yourself a Christian ----well for me that takes the cake -----

Porn meaning​

pôrn

Porn is short for pornography, which is video or print material that is intended to be viewed for sexual gratification.
Click to expand...
Today the term is used for non any media stuff that exploits people emotionally. Disaster porn sucks in millions of people like those who spent days watching reruns of those planes hitting the twin towers. Torture porn can be applied to media that focus attention on torture to a point where they are trapped emotionally in that experience. Cute cat porn floods social media.

Maybe torture horror is a better term.

What bothers me is that his actions repeatedly lifted up the forgiveness that was given to many of the people needing healing. He did not say, "I forgive you ". He said, "You are forgiven.". If those people were already forgiven, how did the death of Jesus achieve their forgiveness?

Jeremiah 31:34 portrays God has having no interest in tracking what we did right or wrong. God's goal was having people live with love. Jesus declared the importance of that in his decision to risk or face death.
 
jimkenney12 said:
I focus on grace in our lives. I am unable to accept the concept of hell. What profit would there be for God in creating such a place?
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Oxford professor C. S. Lewis famously wrote, "The gates of Hell are locked from the inside." In other words, God neither creates Hell n.
o.r consigns souls there, but rather those who freely choose a path of indifference to and separation from God gravitate to that state of consciousness on the basis of the principle like attracts like. As Jesus puts it, "With the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you dish out will be dished out back to you. On this understanding Hell serves as an educational tool which allows us to experience what consciousness would be like if we existed in a realm in which everyone shared our core desires and vices.

The question of duration is a subject for a separate thread. "Gehenna" is Jesus' preferred term for Hell and rabbinic texts from the NT era sometimes envisage a 1-year stay in Gehenna. Some of Jesus' sayings imply ultimate release or graduation from Gehenna.
 
Is indifference a thing that happens when a person developing gets numb to watching pain?

This may render down to numinous activity by editors looking for increasing superficial excitement! Expect tempests ...
 
Re: Mel Gibson's movie. I think that many of us who were raised in liberal Christianity grew up naive to the extreme torment Jesus would have suffered
 
Luce NDs said:
Imagine all the folk that didn't know due to naivete in the mythology!

Thus it is still po' lei unknown ...
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Not sure it is naivete. More likely that the focus was on the ethical teachings of Jesus and his moral code
 
paradox3 said:
Not sure it is naivete. More likely that the focus was on the ethical teachings of Jesus and his moral code
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Yet Jesus said many of his disciples didn't understand ... perhaps due to the parables that resembled metaphors and Satyr that carry on today ... just to keep those that didn't wish to know ... guessing!

It is beyond the enlightenment curve as demonstrated i Dunning-Kruger ... maybe even that other grief curve ... then there is Poggio's Swerve ...

All generated by Borgia's dotter ... if you can connect the points! The female spirit comes into play ...

Expect an intriguing Mass ... a person called Intrepid ... no doubt that i don't know that ID either ... yet we plough on ... Mule Trains? Stubborn persistence ...
 
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