Chapter 19: Sort of Christians

Chapter 19: Sort of Christians

There are many different opinions about which religious groups are Christian and which are not and who can identify as being Christian. For example, many Conservative Christians would say that I am not a Christian since I do not accept the legitimacy of the Apostle's Creed among other things. I self-identify as a Follower of Jesus or a Follower of the Way.

There are two large groups that self-identify as Christian that are seen by many Christians as not Christian. These are the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. There are many others who face judgement like this.

The Roman Catholic church at one time saw all other churches as not legitimately Christian. There are many Protestants who do not see the Roman Catholic Church as legitimately Christian.

Today, many progressive and liberal Christians resist recognizing some evangelical Conservative Christians as Christians because of the ways they diverge from the life and teachings of Jesus.

To me, Christian is a term invented by the Romans to identify the followers of Jesus and has come to mean almost nothing. It is also not our place to judge the legitimacy of others. We can evaluate them, but without a claim to judge them in the name of God. If we criticize others in terms of faith and action on religious grounds, we need to do this with specific reference to the Bible or creeds and why we make that criticism.

 

[Luce NDs]

Imagine getting to Utopia and discovering Christians of all shades! When blended it comes to a white out ... unless the lights go out ... and then mystery creeps in ...

 

[Mendalla]

I do not accept the legitimacy of the Apostle's Creed among other differences I may have from them.

Why should that be the criteria, given how many other creeds and statements of faith there are? Should the criteria not be "follower of Jesus Christ"? Frankly, if your primary spiritual source is the stories of Jesus Christ, then you can legitimately call yourself a "Christian" IMHO. The main reason I stopped identifying that way is not that I rejected traditional creeds like the Nicene and Apostle's but that I simply no longer saw Jesus as central to my spirituality. Important, for sure. After all, I grew up Christian and remained active in a Christian church until my mid-twenties. But other philosophers, teachers, and faith texts have equal or even higher status with me now, so it seems disingenuous to call myself "Christian" since I am as likely to pull out Epicurus, or one of the Stoics, or a science text as I am the Bible when I am looking for "answers to the big questions".

 

[jimkenney12]

My comment was about how other Christians might judge me. I call myself a follower of Jesus or a Follower of the Way. This chapter identifies the divergence of attitudes about who is a Christian. To me, Mormons and JWs have ad much right to call themselves Christians as anyone else.

 

[Waterfall]

Can a Muslim call themselves Christian..
They follow Jesus, but dont believe he is God?

 

[Mendalla]

Can a Muslim call themselves Christian..
They follow Jesus, but dont believe he is God?

He is regarded as the greatest prophet before Muhammad, but Muhammad's revelation in the Qu'ran is the core of their faith so I wouldn't regard them as such. Jesus is important, but not central, for them. And given how Christians have treated Muslims over the centuries, I doubt they want to be seen as such.

 

[jimkenney12]

But there is nothing to stop a Muslim from calling themself Christian. It would be confusing to people who know them though.

 

[BetteTheRed]

It might be, but ya know, combo sort of beliefs have historically been accepted in some groups (the early Christians who worshipped in Jewish synagogues, the often blending of Judaism into atheist-Jews and Buddhist-Jews (JuBus, lol), millennials (my daughter describes herself as a pagan agnostic maybe-a-bit Christian, which led an ancient Catholic great-uncle into calling her a witch, LOL). My son would call himself Christian but he lives on a small coastal island where the only, "hanging by a thread" church, UCC, is not social-justice focused, has an average age of about 80, and would like to rely on my son to move their chairs for them, but not offer an opinion. My own beliefs confuse many Christians. I take almost everything in a literary criticism/metaphorical way, my core beliefs are clearly pretty well non-theist, the UCC creed is about all I can sorta go with, many hymns are terrible (for which discernment, though, I heartfully thank our worship team and musicians and minister).

 

[jimkenney12]

Many hymns make me cringe.

 

[Luce NDs]

Imagine a rainbow of Christians ... breaks the underlying powers up so that support forms cracks ... deep psyche?

Some refer to this as underground or middle earth ... in a flat earth Rome took up position due to how appearances settle ...

 

[Mendalla]

But there is nothing to stop a Muslim from calling themself Christian. It would be confusing to people who know them though.

"There is no god but God, and Muhammad is His prophet" kind of militates against it, though. Doubt they would be taken too seriously within Islam. And since they could not hold the Muslim part of their beliefs and still accept the Trinity or the divinity of Jesus, they'd be odd ducks in mainstream Christianity, too. Would have to be unitarian (in theology, not the faith group) at minimum.

 

[jimkenney12]

But it has already been implied in our discussion that a person could call themselves Christians without accepting the creeds including the trinity and even the divinity of Jesus. I believe the concept of Jesus as God evolved in the decades following his death. Those first followers were Jews and believing Jesus was God would have been a hard ask. They believed he was the Messiah, the One sent by God. I believe it is possible for a Muslim to be inspired by the life and teachings of Jesus and choose to follow the Way without believing he was God. It is pretty hard for most people to follow Mohammed and lead a Jihad across a large part of the world, but a person can accept a life of service of others

 

[paradox3]

Muslim neighbors have told me that Jesus is an important prophet in their faith. Not divine and not the son of God but an extremely important prophet nonetheless

 

[Luce NDs]

"There is no god but God, and Muhammad is His prophet" kind of militates against it, though. Doubt they would be taken too seriously within Islam. And since they could not hold the Muslim part of their beliefs and still accept the Trinity or the divinity of Jesus, they'd be odd ducks in mainstream Christianity, too. Would have to be unitarian (in theology, not the faith group) at minimum.

Imagine the light of eternal matter was wild and beyond us as dark and unseen matter thus comprising of immaterial? Leads those that believe not in unseen's to see red and become like angry heifers ... it is a shadowy scene like Samson's Riddle ... bones, meat and honey ... a kind of nebulae of a contemplative matter ... often contemptable it is said ... as lords of the land would sooner keep slaves in the dark and unknowing ...

 

[Waterfall]

Muslim neighbors have told me that Jesus is an important prophet in their faith. Not divine and not the son of God but an extremely important prophet nonetheless

I believe there is no hierarchy in prophets....so Mohammed is the same as Jesus...a prophet and messenger...

 

[Luce NDs]

Prophets and sears are delegated to lo' supportively elements until exhausted ... then the bust and collapse as a hanging participle ...

Jaa zeus stated to have care ... and yet we don't ... we plogh on as Samson accused those dealing with his enigma ... a heifers' debate?

Any one cowed by that ...

 

[Luce NDs]

Accept is ... it is an alien world of chaos we reside within ... few know sar from as is ...

 

[Mendalla]

I believe there is no hierarchy in prophets....so Mohammed is the same as Jesus...a prophet and messenger...

Muslims are more about prophetic succession. Each prophet brings the same message of submission to God, but humans keep messing it up. Jesus was the last prophet before Muhammad but Christians bolluxed up the message with things like Trinitarianism. Only the Qu'ran contains the true revelation at this point because it actually came directly from God through Muhammad with no other human hands involved to corrupt the message (which is historically not quite true, but it is their faith). So technically, it is not so much that Muhammad himself is superior to Jesus as his message is uncorrupted, whereas Christians corrupted that of Jesus in writing it down.

 

[Luce NDs]

Imagine submitting to the unknown with out contemplating what is involved in the order ... albeit chaotic!

I'm out ... Isle fold as a wrinkle ... odd tucker they say down under where the criminals went for trying to survive under thoughtless dictators ... mindfulness takes on a NU wonder ... tus de nous ... and de nice the men Ace ... what does it mean in the medium? Nothing ... power does not process ... they just plough it all under ...

 

[Waterfall]

Muslims are more about prophetic succession. Each prophet brings the same message of submission to God, but humans keep messing it up. Jesus was the last prophet before Muhammad but Christians bolluxed up the message with things like Trinitarianism. Only the Qu'ran contains the true revelation at this point because it actually came directly from God through Muhammad with no other human hands involved to corrupt the message (which is historically not quite true, but it is their faith). So technically, it is not so much that Muhammad himself is superior to Jesus as his message is uncorrupted, whereas Christians corrupted that of Jesus in writing it down.

And of course, there were no witnesses as in the Jewish faith that stresses this.