Can we discuss the ethics or moral dilemna

[crazyheart]

From Broken Promise - Linwood Barclay

"Let me tell you a story," he said. "After your mother and I got married, but

before I got a job with the town, I was out of work.

There was a guy building houses on the south side if town who was looking to hire.

I knew something about him. I knew he was a drunk, that he abused his wife, that he

beat his kids. He was a total s**t, this guy. And I had a wife to look after, rent

to pay. I had responsibilities. I took that job. I wasn't proud of myself,

but looking after your mother came ahead of my pride. I decided I'd work that job

and keep looking for something better in the mean time. And as soon as I found

something with the town, I gave that bastard my notice and left. But through it all

your mother never went hungry, and she never spent a day without a roof

over her head."

So................ What a dilemma. Did this man do the right thing or should he have worked for someone other than a creep?If it were a big company, he wouldn't know personal history. Any comments or questions?

 

[revjohn]

So................ What a dilemma.

Not really seeing one.

Did this man do the right thing or should he have worked for someone other than a creep?

Did the man witness his boss abuse his wife and do nothing about it? Doesn't say.
Did the man suspect his boss abused his wife and do nothing about it? Doesn't say.
Did the man witness his boss abuse his kids and do nothing about it? Doesn't say.
Did the man suspect his boos abused his kids and do nothing about it? Doesn't say,
Did the man witness his boss drive while intoxicated? Doesn't say.
The man recognized that he had a responsibility to his wife, did taking the job get in the way of that?
Does working for such an employer as this obligate this man to act in such a way as to condone these abuses?
Does the boss routinely threaten the man with firing if he mentions his foibles to anyone else? Doesn't say.

If it were a big company, he wouldn't know personal history. Any comments or questions?

Not necessarily. People work for Monsanto. People work in the tar sands. People work in casinos. People work for the Irving family. Big companies are only different from small companies by size. Moral dilemmas are a result of ethical conflict not the size of the company worked for.

Take the job and maybe provide a positive role model.

No alcoholic employer went sober because an employee or employees quit on them.
No abusive husband or father stopped being either just because some guy who works for them quit.

 

[Luce NDs]

Dynamics or dying mania? You can look at things the other way for ambiguity ... allows for mental spiritual separation to witness the other side in experience ... time to goes ...

 

[Seeler]

I don't see much of a moral dilemna here. You need a job, any job until you can find a better one. There is a man you neither like or respect because of his personal life style. He has a job opening. You hide your personal feelings for him and accept the job. You do a good job, aand try to avoid him in social situations (ie the lunch room; the tavern after work). When the opportunity presents you take a different job in more congenial surroundings.
It would be different if he pressured you to do inferior work - substitute cheap materials, falsify accounts, cut corners, ignore safety measures, cover up mistakes. Then you might have to ask yourself, 'Is it worth it? How far am I willing to go? Would it be better to quit and take my chances on finding something else (or my wife working while I take care of the kids; or go on public assistance) rather than comproimise my ethics?

 

[Waterfall]

I suppose in a perfect world, it would be lovely to befriend the man and possibly have some sort of positive influence, but the 'boss" doesn't always prefer to hang out with his/her employees and vice versa for the employee. Also do we always know the personal life of who employs us?
One could always report the family to social services if you were absolutely sure that he was indeed harming his family. Comes down to do we take care of our own children at the expense of anothers children without doing anything?

 

[Seeler]

Nobody is asking that us take care of our own children at the expense of another's children. He is asking that we pick his potatoes, sell his used cars, build his housing development, fillet his fish, balanced his accounts, or whatever business he is involved in.
Oh, looking back I see that it is building houses.
So he has a reputation about town as a bastard who abuses his wife and children. I don't need to be involved in it. Unless it is a small company we may not have much contact - not if I can avoid it. But if we do have much contact he might see how I treat and respect my family and be influenced by me, but I doubt it. He's the boss.
If I have a good reason to suspect that he is harming his family (not just rumour) I don't need to be absolutely sure, I might feel that I have a moral duty to report him to social services. They should follow up on any report without revealing the source.
If I were in certain occupations - teacher, police, daycare operator, clergy - I would have a duty to report.

Twice in my lifetime I have reported suspected child abuse/neglect and been thanked by social services. Once they told me that they were already closely monitoring the family. The other time I didn't hear anything back; years later my neighbour told me that the reason she started renting a room to female university students was so someone was home with her daughter while she worked nights. 'Someone,' she told me had complained about her leaving the little girl with her teenage brother and that he was abusing her. I didn't say anything.

 

[GordW]

If I have a good reason to suspect that he is harming his family (not just rumour) I don't need to be absolutely sure, I might feel that I have a moral duty to report him to social services. They should follow up on any report without revealing the source.
If I were in certain occupations - teacher, police, daycare operator, clergy - I would have a duty to report.

THIS. This is where any question of morals and ethics comes into play, not in the working for him or not. As I understand the law it is not just people in certain professions who have a legal duty to report, we all do if we have reason to suspect a minor is being harmed or placed in jeopardy. The moral duty is unquestioned. We do not need proof, we need a reasonable suspicion and then let those charged with the task do their job. And if they are acting ethically they can not reveal the source (though depending on circumstances many parents develop a suspicion of who it was).

It is never a fun call to make.

 

[Mendalla]

I think that in a perfect world, we would all be able to find jobs that fit our moral compass working for people we like. The world ain't perfect. In the most egregious cases, like the boss abusing his kids or sexually harassing workers, you have to act. Otherwise, there may be times you just need to suck it up until you either find another job or can afford to leave. I've been blessed in finding two jobs for employers I can get behind with bosses I've liked and got along with. I know not everyone is so blessed.

 

[Mendalla]

And perhaps a better example would be one that doesn't tread into legal territory.

What if you're an IT geek with a young family desperate for money due to living in the Toronto housing market and the adultery dating site Ashley Madison (yes, they're Canadian) approaches you with a good offer (fulltime permanent employment, good salary that will cover your mortgage and still leave some left for the kids' RESPs, full benefits, etc.)? Nothing illegal or reportable but a lot of potential for moral quandaries.

 

[Waterfall]

Nobody is asking that us take care of our own children at the expense of another's children. He is asking that we pick his potatoes, sell his used cars, build his housing development, fillet his fish, balanced his accounts, or whatever business he is involved in.
Oh, looking back I see that it is building houses.
So he has a reputation about town as a bastard who abuses his wife and children. I don't need to be involved in it. Unless it is a small company we may not have much contact - not if I can avoid it. But if we do have much contact he might see how I treat and respect my family and be influenced by me, but I doubt it. He's the boss.
If I have a good reason to suspect that he is harming his family (not just rumour) I don't need to be absolutely sure, I might feel that I have a moral duty to report him to social services. They should follow up on any report without revealing the source.
If I were in certain occupations - teacher, police, daycare operator, clergy - I would have a duty to report.

Twice in my lifetime I have reported suspected child abuse/neglect and been thanked by social services. Once they told me that they were already closely monitoring the family. The other time I didn't hear anything back; years later my neighbour told me that the reason she started renting a room to female university students was so someone was home with her daughter while she worked nights. 'Someone,' she told me had complained about her leaving the little girl with her teenage brother and that he was abusing her. I didn't say anything.

When I suggested that we would be taking care of our own children at the expense of anothers, that would be if we DIDN'T report what we were aware of just to keep a job.....so yes, as I suggested, this needs to be reported to social services.

 

[Pontifex Geronimo 13]

 

[mgagnonlv]

Moral dilemmas about the job? I don't think so. I see a potential problem if the boss is rude or unethical at work. The home-builder employee that you are talking about has the opportunity to build good houses for the company's customers, and as long as he or she excels at it and as long as the working environment is suitable, then it's great.

I would see conscience problems if the following conditions exist :
– company where the boss is rude, doesn't respect workers;
– company where the boss would require to skimp on quality, to screw customers.

There are other jobs where I would have ethical questions, such as telemarketing to sell useless junk, but for this one, I don't see any issue.


Other posters have raised the question "Should I report him for wife/child abuse?"
I generally don't like to mess with other's life unless there is a very good reason to do so. But then, the situation would be the same whether I'm an employee of that company or not.
Generally speaking, I won't act on hearsay. And it's hard to be specific as I have never been confronted with the situation. If I were to witness child abuse, I would question the parent(s) if it's questionable and would consider going to the police if it's a clear case. If I were to witness abuse against an adult (ex.: his wife), I would prefer to support the adult: i.e. help her and encourage her to report, serve as witness, etc.

BTW, I won't fight my way. I'm so terrible in that department that I'll simply be another casualty. Better keep me alive as a witness!

 

[Luce NDs]

One has to ask ...

Does it take a crooked house, crooked man, crooked way, crooked line of sight ... to give us aspirations to look around the corner or over the edge of the horizon?

Some studies say that anywhere from 85 - 99% of the paradigm don't wish to know ... thus a flood of unknown words to protect the naïveté ... some say the books of knowledge and lexicons bean alien studies ... distant learning zone! Tis a coverup for those speaking of unknown IDe ology? The logos of a' priori power as an erg? Just'a small bit ... or chit if you wish to dispose and de nail it ... denial's?

Where to put such heavenly attributes? Thus fall out and fallacy ... Nous falls ... our thing!