Jaebius
Canadian in Korea
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Yet you wereMore Hot Air Blowing --there Jaebius -----
And you still haven't admitted it
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And you still haven't admitted it
Jaebius
Canadian in Korea
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
God’s Word, unsafe, will accomplish its purpose, whether in salvation or in judgment (Isa 55:11).
The same God who sovereignly elects also spoke the universe into existence in six literal days.
For you to suggest that explaining Scripture's wasted effort, unsafe, is to deny that Word's power.
The hardened heart's the reason we speak, knowing only God can break stone into flesh.
The elect will hear when God wills it
WhyCzar
Connect The Dots
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Their
My heart is not hardened toward God. I revel in the story of Jesus and if I could travel back in time I would choose to go back to the time of Jesus and meet the legend for myself - along with John the Baptist who is my favorite biblical character. As far as the Bible goes - when I say which Bible - I mean which version of the Bible. There are many versions of the "Christian" bible if I am not mistaken.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
And the unelect wiill not have their hearts Changed ----and will not hear ----cause with your John Calvin's Theology God only Chooses some to be His Elect and some not ---so you can't have it both ways in your theology -----some will be the chosen to Heaven and some will be chosen to Hell and that is what you believe --so not all hearts will be changed to an acceptable heart ---to get to Heaven -according to what you believe ---
BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Really? unsafe's Amplified Version, which allows her to cherry pick every option? Eugene Petersen's The Message, which although gentle and lovely has a clear slant? My preferred Inclusive Bible, which really tries? The NIV, which clearly doesn't?
Jaebius
Canadian in Korea
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
It's great to hear that you're not hardened toward God. I love that!
To answer your question about Bible version, then, as a pastor I use EASY, KOERV, and NIV.
Once my pastorate comes to an end in a few weeks, I'm thinking of just using MSG
Jaebius
Canadian in Korea
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Just as He spoke the universe into existence in six literal days, unsafe, God speaks new life into His elect's hearts.
Both creation and regeneration are divine fiat's acts.
For you to insist otherwise, unsafe, is to elevate your autonomy above divine authority.
Calvinisms rigorous. Logical. Biblical
The unelect remain hardened because God hasn't purposed to save them. The elect are changed because He has.
That's sovereignty
Jaebius
Canadian in Korea
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
We, Bette, don’t get to bend the Bible to our preferences.
@unsafe's AMP overwhelms the reader with options that dilute clarity.
The MSG's a paraphrase.
Your Inclusive Bible, Bette, reshapes the text to fit modern sensibilities.
The NIV too has its weaknesses.
The question's, do we trust God’s Word as He gave it, or do we reshape it to suit our cultural moment?
The Bible's living and active. Sharper than any two-edged sword
There have been philosophers (people who love knowledge and wisdom) through time that do not put down things but pick eM-up for examination. Several have hunted or indicated that there is this bible thing that seems to be the father of all stories, ballads and lies throughout history ... there even being some Biblical script that declares how big that source is and that it should be questioned and examined because it is beyond mortal ... a bit of a Q or clue on "Ka" ... the latter being said to be a letter of spirit and reflection ... which some say Ba ohmbug to leaving those that do not dig saying Dah ...
Some say this is a sign of an emptied spirit ... like one of those special trees where you could dispose of a wasted story ... it might act as a chimney to heaven in a draft ... circumferential as inferred ...as it goes about ...
Mores to be inquired about ... no end to the ultimate as it expands at increasing rates ... like an archaic item of contention ... given the hate of knowledge, intelligence and rigid information down here. There is none ... lies are profuse because of the temptation of power and thus the power of knowledge descends ... it is just how it is for those that debate virtue ...
Imagine a bug in your carrier ... don qui ode ... free ranging beast in the desert ... mulls thorns ...
Some say this is a sign of an emptied spirit ... like one of those special trees where you could dispose of a wasted story ... it might act as a chimney to heaven in a draft ... circumferential as inferred ...as it goes about ...
Mores to be inquired about ... no end to the ultimate as it expands at increasing rates ... like an archaic item of contention ... given the hate of knowledge, intelligence and rigid information down here. There is none ... lies are profuse because of the temptation of power and thus the power of knowledge descends ... it is just how it is for those that debate virtue ...
Imagine a bug in your carrier ... don qui ode ... free ranging beast in the desert ... mulls thorns ...
unsafe
Well-Known Member
And John Calvin Shapes it to suit his Theology -----not God's Doctrine
It is a human fault ... right beyond Gods world ... fringe vision from the other side? Then if you believed there was no duality to a single sided debate ... it would be like a dragon crashing through ... far out eh?
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Romans 8:29-30 is the Scripture most used to Prove that God Chooses some for Heaven and others For Hell in Calvinism
Predestination is Biblical -----I agree with that ------ But Understanding it and what it intales is so very important to Get -----
30 And those whom He predestined, He also called; and those whom He called, He also justified [declared free of the guilt of sin]; and those whom He justified, He also glorified [raising them to a heavenly dignity].
I say -------The thing that has to be understood is ----this word Predestination in Scripture-----and what it pertains to and who it pertains to ------
Greek word for Predestined
Lexical Summary
proorizó: To predestine, to foreordain
1. to limit in advance
2. (figuratively) predetermine
predestination concerns events—assuring believers that even human hostility cannot overturn the divine plan.
“those He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son…
The gospel is “the wisdom of God in a mystery, that God predestined for our glory before time began.
Ephesians 1 draws out purpose and praise. Verse 5: “He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.
Old Covenant Foundations
Hebrew antecedents (אֲנַחְנוּ, אוֹתָנוּ) often function corporately, underscoring covenant solidarity.
When New Testament writers employ ἡμᾶς, they echo Israel’s collective consciousness while expanding it to a Jew–Gentile church.
Theological Implications
• Corporate grace: Salvation is personal yet never isolated; the pronoun safeguards the communal dimension (Ephesians 2:19-22).
Shared suffering: “The sufferings of Christ overflow to us” (2 Corinthians 1:5), fostering mutual comfort.
Theological Emphases
Divine Sovereignty
The verb presents God as the sole architect of salvation and history. Human response is real and commanded
Christ-Centered Goal
Predestination is never abstract fate. It funnels toward union with Christ—conformity to His image, adoption through His work, and participation in His glory.
Predestination is an explicitly biblical doctrine. Yet the determination of predestination is not disconnected from the rest of God’s unchanging character (Malachi 3:6).
It is connected to His foreknowledge (Romans 8:29, 11:2), His love (Ephesians 1:4-5), and His plan and pleasure (Ephesians 1:5).
God’s desire is that all would be saved and come to repentance (1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9). Predestination is personal and relational, not capricious.
Greek word for ALL
Lexical Summary
pas: All, every, whole, entire . everyone,
The Inclusive Reach of Salvation
John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Acts 2:21; Romans 10:13 echo Joel: “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9 stress God’s desire that “all” be saved and come to repentance.
Predestination is Biblical -----I agree with that ------ But Understanding it and what it intales is so very important to Get -----
Romans 8:29-30 AMP----
29 For those whom He foreknew [and loved and chose beforehand], He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son [and ultimately share in His complete sanctification], so that He would be the firstborn [the most beloved and honored] among many believers.30 And those whom He predestined, He also called; and those whom He called, He also justified [declared free of the guilt of sin]; and those whom He justified, He also glorified [raising them to a heavenly dignity].
I say -------The thing that has to be understood is ----this word Predestination in Scripture-----and what it pertains to and who it pertains to ------
Greek word for Predestined
Lexical Summary
proorizó: To predestine, to foreordain
1. to limit in advance
2. (figuratively) predetermine
predestination concerns events—assuring believers that even human hostility cannot overturn the divine plan.
“those He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son…
The gospel is “the wisdom of God in a mystery, that God predestined for our glory before time began.
Ephesians 1 draws out purpose and praise. Verse 5: “He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.
Old Covenant Foundations
Hebrew antecedents (אֲנַחְנוּ, אוֹתָנוּ) often function corporately, underscoring covenant solidarity.
When New Testament writers employ ἡμᾶς, they echo Israel’s collective consciousness while expanding it to a Jew–Gentile church.
Theological Implications
• Corporate grace: Salvation is personal yet never isolated; the pronoun safeguards the communal dimension (Ephesians 2:19-22).
Shared suffering: “The sufferings of Christ overflow to us” (2 Corinthians 1:5), fostering mutual comfort.
Theological Emphases
Divine Sovereignty
The verb presents God as the sole architect of salvation and history. Human response is real and commanded
Christ-Centered Goal
Predestination is never abstract fate. It funnels toward union with Christ—conformity to His image, adoption through His work, and participation in His glory.
What is predestination? Is predestination biblical? | GotQuestions.org
What is predestination / predetermination? Is predestination biblical? What does predestined mean? Does God predestine who will be saved?
www.gotquestions.org
Predestination is an explicitly biblical doctrine. Yet the determination of predestination is not disconnected from the rest of God’s unchanging character (Malachi 3:6).
It is connected to His foreknowledge (Romans 8:29, 11:2), His love (Ephesians 1:4-5), and His plan and pleasure (Ephesians 1:5).
God’s desire is that all would be saved and come to repentance (1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9). Predestination is personal and relational, not capricious.
Greek word for ALL
Lexical Summary
pas: All, every, whole, entire . everyone,
The Inclusive Reach of Salvation
John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Acts 2:21; Romans 10:13 echo Joel: “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9 stress God’s desire that “all” be saved and come to repentance.
Romans 8:29-30 is the Scripture most used to Prove that God Chooses some for Heaven and others For Hell in Calvinism
Predestination is Biblical -----I agree with that ------ But Understanding it and what it intales is so very important to Get -----
Romans 8:29-30 AMP----
29 For those whom He foreknew [and loved and chose beforehand], He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son [and ultimately share in His complete sanctification], so that He would be the firstborn [the most beloved and honored] among many believers.
30 And those whom He predestined, He also called; and those whom He called, He also justified [declared free of the guilt of sin]; and those whom He justified, He also glorified [raising them to a heavenly dignity].
I say -------The thing that has to be understood is ----this word Predestination in Scripture-----and what it pertains to and who it pertains to ------
Greek word for Predestined
Lexical Summary
proorizó: To predestine, to foreordain
1. to limit in advance
2. (figuratively) predetermine
predestination concerns events—assuring believers that even human hostility cannot overturn the divine plan.
“those He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son…
The gospel is “the wisdom of God in a mystery, that God predestined for our glory before time began.
Ephesians 1 draws out purpose and praise. Verse 5: “He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.
Old Covenant Foundations
Hebrew antecedents (אֲנַחְנוּ, אוֹתָנוּ) often function corporately, underscoring covenant solidarity.
When New Testament writers employ ἡμᾶς, they echo Israel’s collective consciousness while expanding it to a Jew–Gentile church.
Theological Implications
• Corporate grace: Salvation is personal yet never isolated; the pronoun safeguards the communal dimension (Ephesians 2:19-22).
Shared suffering: “The sufferings of Christ overflow to us” (2 Corinthians 1:5), fostering mutual comfort.
Theological Emphases
Divine Sovereignty
The verb presents God as the sole architect of salvation and history. Human response is real and commanded
Christ-Centered Goal
Predestination is never abstract fate. It funnels toward union with Christ—conformity to His image, adoption through His work, and participation in His glory.
What is predestination? Is predestination biblical? | GotQuestions.org
What is predestination / predetermination? Is predestination biblical? What does predestined mean? Does God predestine who will be saved?www.gotquestions.org
Predestination is an explicitly biblical doctrine. Yet the determination of predestination is not disconnected from the rest of God’s unchanging character (Malachi 3:6).
It is connected to His foreknowledge (Romans 8:29, 11:2), His love (Ephesians 1:4-5), and His plan and pleasure (Ephesians 1:5).
God’s desire is that all would be saved and come to repentance (1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9). Predestination is personal and relational, not capricious.
Greek word for ALL
Lexical Summary
pas: All, every, whole, entire . everyone,
The Inclusive Reach of Salvation
John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Acts 2:21; Romans 10:13 echo Joel: “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9 stress God’s desire that “all” be saved and come to repentance.
Sounds like an approach meant to overpower physically than with the the more subtle soul, mind, psyche ... then if the physical power denies the other side of un virtue ... the laid out as lying there ... on the other side of what's myth!
As sometimes declared about myth ... its magic and can take a virtue where a lie cannot go down ... standing there as ET ihc barrier ... tough butt!
Jaebius
Canadian in Korea
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
You, unsafe, are projecting your modern cynicism onto a man who lived with a deep sense of divine accountability.
God's Word's the rock that breaks your arrogance.
Calvin's theology reflects submission.
Your charge reveals more about you than Calvin.
It's easier for you to dismiss him as a manipulator than to wrestle with the uncomfortable truths he drew from Scripture. God's sovereignty. Your depravity. Grace's necessity
unsafe
Well-Known Member
The Amplified Bible ---does not overwhelm the reader with Options ----
Where did you get that from ---
From Google
The Amplified Bible (AMP) can dilute clarity for continuous reading,
but it enhances clarity for word-by-word study.
Whether it helps or hurts depends entirely on how you use it
The frequent use of brackets, parentheticals, and synonyms breaks up the natural rhythm of sentences.
Unpacks Original Languages:
Ancient Greek and Hebrew words often have rich, multi-layered meanings that a single English word cannot capture.
Reveals Hidden Nuance:
It brings out shades of meaning, tense, and emphasis that are usually lost in standard translations. [1]
Do use it for: Micro-study, unpacking difficult verses, and clarifying theological terms.
Proverbs 4:7---different translations ----AMP at the bottom
New International Version
The beginning of wisdom is this: Get wisdom. Though it cost all you have, get understanding.
New Living Translation
Getting wisdom is the wisest thing you can do! And whatever else you do, develop good judgment.
English Standard Version
The beginning of wisdom is this: Get wisdom, and whatever you get, get insight.
Berean Standard Bible
Wisdom is supreme; so acquire wisdom. And whatever you may acquire, gain understanding.
Berean Literal Bible
The first thing is wisdom; acquire wisdom, and in all your acquiring, acquire understanding.
King James Bible
Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
New King James Version
Wisdom is the principal thing; Therefore get wisdom. And in all your getting, get understanding.
New American Standard Bible
“The beginning of wisdom is: Acquire wisdom; And with all your possessions, acquire understanding.
NASB 1995
“The beginning of wisdom is: Acquire wisdom; And with all your acquiring, get understanding.
NASB 1977
“The beginning of wisdom is: Acquire wisdom; And with all your acquiring, get understanding.
Legacy Standard Bible
The beginning of wisdom is: Acquire wisdom; And with all your acquiring, acquire understanding.
Amplified Bible
“The beginning of wisdom is: Get [skillful and godly] wisdom [it is preeminent]! And with all your acquiring, get understanding [actively seek spiritual discernment, mature comprehension, and logical interpretation].
Hebrew word for wisdom
Lexical Summary
chokmah: wisdom, skill, wisely
; wisdom (in a good sense) -- skilful, wisdom, wisely, wit.
חָכְמָה (chokmah) is the comprehensive, God-centered
They have added this -----[it is preeminent]
But this does not change the meaning of the scripture in any way ----it enhances the importance of getting Wisdom -----
KJV Dictionary
Pre-eminence
PRE-EM'INENCE, noun
Superiority in excellence
Hebrew Word for -----Understanding
Lexical Summary
binah: understanding, discernment, clearly
Definition and Scope of Meaning
בִּינָה (binah) encompasses intellectual discernment, moral insight, and the God-given capacity to grasp the implications of truth. It is more than knowledge; it is the ability to differentiate, to weigh, and to choose rightly in light of God’s revelation.
All the Amplified Bible does is give you the Greek and Hebrew meanings of some words which give you a better understanding of what the scripture is conveying -----
Jaebius
Canadian in Korea
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
God, Luce, created the heavens and the earth in six days.
His world was made good. Whole. Without duality in its original state!
The duality we wrestle with now's the Fall's result.
When you speak of “fringe vision from the other side,” I hear echoes of how humanity interprets reality apart from God’s Word, which leads to confusion and distortion.
Your metaphors are your soul’s way of reaching for clarity.
Beyond the noise, there's a deeper order
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Maybe so ----but He had no true understanding of the Doctrine of Election and all who listen to his wrong use of God sending people to hell is very --very bad new for people as they wonder and fear if they will be chosen or not chosen -----
So Dangerous ---and unnecessary ---Preaching ------when all t takes is doing some research to find that God wants all people Saved -----not just some and there is many scriptures to back that up ---
Lexical Summary
pas: All, every, whole, entire . everyone,
The Inclusive Reach of Salvation
John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Acts 2:21; Romans 10:13 echo Joel: “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9 stress God’s desire that “all” be saved and come to repentance.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
I send that statement right back to you there Brother ----
Jaebius
Canadian in Korea
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
God, unsafe, chose Jacob before he and Esau had done anything good or bad (Rom 9:11). That's unconditional election.Romans 8:29-30 is the Scripture most used to Prove that God Chooses some for Heaven and others For Hell in Calvinism
Predestination is Biblical -----I agree with that ------ But Understanding it and what it intales is so very important to Get -----
Romans 8:29-30 AMP----
29 For those whom He foreknew [and loved and chose beforehand], He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son [and ultimately share in His complete sanctification], so that He would be the firstborn [the most beloved and honored] among many believers.
30 And those whom He predestined, He also called; and those whom He called, He also justified [declared free of the guilt of sin]; and those whom He justified, He also glorified [raising them to a heavenly dignity].
I say -------The thing that has to be understood is ----this word Predestination in Scripture-----and what it pertains to and who it pertains to ------
Greek word for Predestined
Lexical Summary
proorizó: To predestine, to foreordain
1. to limit in advance
2. (figuratively) predetermine
predestination concerns events—assuring believers that even human hostility cannot overturn the divine plan.
“those He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son…
The gospel is “the wisdom of God in a mystery, that God predestined for our glory before time began.
Ephesians 1 draws out purpose and praise. Verse 5: “He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.
Old Covenant Foundations
Hebrew antecedents (אֲנַחְנוּ, אוֹתָנוּ) often function corporately, underscoring covenant solidarity.
When New Testament writers employ ἡμᾶς, they echo Israel’s collective consciousness while expanding it to a Jew–Gentile church.
Theological Implications
• Corporate grace: Salvation is personal yet never isolated; the pronoun safeguards the communal dimension (Ephesians 2:19-22).
Shared suffering: “The sufferings of Christ overflow to us” (2 Corinthians 1:5), fostering mutual comfort.
Theological Emphases
Divine Sovereignty
The verb presents God as the sole architect of salvation and history. Human response is real and commanded
Christ-Centered Goal
Predestination is never abstract fate. It funnels toward union with Christ—conformity to His image, adoption through His work, and participation in His glory.
What is predestination? Is predestination biblical? | GotQuestions.org
What is predestination / predetermination? Is predestination biblical? What does predestined mean? Does God predestine who will be saved?www.gotquestions.org
Predestination is an explicitly biblical doctrine. Yet the determination of predestination is not disconnected from the rest of God’s unchanging character (Malachi 3:6).
It is connected to His foreknowledge (Romans 8:29, 11:2), His love (Ephesians 1:4-5), and His plan and pleasure (Ephesians 1:5).
God’s desire is that all would be saved and come to repentance (1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9). Predestination is personal and relational, not capricious.
Greek word for ALL
Lexical Summary
pas: All, every, whole, entire . everyone,
The Inclusive Reach of Salvation
John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Acts 2:21; Romans 10:13 echo Joel: “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9 stress God’s desire that “all” be saved and come to repentance.
For you to deny it's to deny God's sovereignty over salvation.
Let’s stop, unsafe, softening the edges.
Predestination's personal in that God names His sheep before the world's foundation. Relational in that He effectually calls them into union with Christ. Absolute in that His decree can't fail
Jaebius
Canadian in Korea
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
It's you, not I, who thinks that God needs your participation to saveI send that statement right back to you there Brother ----